Best posts made by friendlybee

@auspice said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

Someone claiming to represent a group =/= what the group represents. Harassing a victim of unwanted sexual contact for speaking out is not at all in line with the ideals of social justice or really even being a good person.
There are violent jerks in every subgroup. They do not tend to define the subgroup, unless the subgroup itself is founded on violent, jerk-like beliefs (see: white supremacists, etc.)

And yet that is what a good number of political disagreements come down to. It's what a lot of things on these boards come down to.

@Templari brought it up early on. We witnessed it again later.

Right-wing supremacists are terrible. Even most conservatives will agree to that. Yet there are very public places on the internet where all you see is 'All conservatives/Republicans/Centrists/Libertarians are idiots/racists/nazis/etc'.

In this day and age, people believe that the subset is the entire group. That even if the main group decries them, works against them, routes them at, the main group is still, in the end, at fault. I mean, churches like Westboro have, for many, come to define Christianity despite the fact that true Christians utterly loathe them as well.

It does not matter that 'SJW' had good "intentions," it has become sullied. So, so many people have seen vicious, terrible attacks. Been viciously, terribly attacked themselves that they want nothing to do with the term. That they immediately shy away from anyone who will bear it 'loud and proud' because to them that's a warning sign already.

This isn't really the place for the political direction you're attempting to take this conversation. I'd readily welcome some PMs, or a post in the politics subforum though. There was no evidence of the insane psychopathy you are attempting to paint people who don't want to be called the c-word with in the thread that's being discussed. Nor have I seen evidence of it on these forums.

@faraday said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee - I already do stay out of the hog pit, but thank you for the suggestion. And the moderators are already well aware of the types of threads I'm referring to, since they're the ones moving them to the hog pit. I really see no value in hunting them down so people can debate each one individually. If you haven't seen it? Great. But it definitely exists.

If you don't want to provide evidence that's fine, but it doesn't make your arguments very compelling. I'm not trying to be rude, but I've asked two or three people for examples now, and they've been unable to provide them. It's starting to look like maybe this problem is imagined more than experienced.

@ganymede said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

I'm not trying to be rude, but I've asked two or three people for examples now, and they've been unable to provide them. It's starting to look like maybe this problem is imagined more than experienced.

Examples are not the same as evidence.

Faraday's point is clear to me: why should I spend my time nattering with assholes? It seems like a silly thing to do, if one wishes to avoid them.

We all know how the Hog Pit works. Since you're new, you're probably not seeing how the toxicity consistently bleeds from there into other places, like here, in the Mildly Constructive area. But this is something we've talked about before.

So, your lack of evidence is more of an absence of experience to me.

I've been around since wora (or swofa? whichever was first I never remember the acronym order) and been mu*ing for 20 years. I'm posting for the first time in a while, and even back then I wasn't very prolific. I brought that up a few times in my posts. It definitely has happened. It doesn't regularly happen anymore very often, the hog pit does a good job with that from what I've seen. I absolutely accept that I could be wrong - but again, in this isntance even? Which is being treated like a hogpiling? It was one person being politely asked not to say a word, and a few people eyerolling at his 'OMG SJWWWW!!!!!!!' reply to that. Then another person stomped in and, because they consider themselves a conservative, decided that they were being attacked when someone else was asked not to say the c word.

@bored said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

I'm not sure it's a 'level of venom' thing. I imagine most people would agree I'm one of the more willingly combative posters and don't think the hog pit should go away. Sometimes torches and pitchforks are the required answer, particularly as it pertains to some of the forum's original function as a space where people can report on game abuses away from on-game censorship or reprisal (although the reprisals still happen, as we saw on the SF/Spider thread). Sometimes the vicious dog-pile is social correction.

And I very strongly believe we always need a space where someone can go 'look at this shitstain of a corrupt creeping fucknugget staffer and their garbage pile of a game, AVOID AVOID AVOID'. And when the staffers come on to defend their shitty behavior, they get dogpiled and it's glorious and proper. I support watching those people flail and dig their holes, and moderation in those cases would almost certainly be abused by the guilty staff to silence their detractors.

But I also recognize the value of having constructive spaces and have badgered until the mods gave in argued for the creation of places for people who want the civil discussion. That's actually how we got the Game Dev section. But civil discussion really means civil discussion, if that's what you want. In that thread, I had been suggesting that it get a higher standard of moderation per the desire of people like @surreality and @faraday who wanted somewhere they could discuss ideas with very strict controls on criticism.

We got the new forum, but we didn't get the higher moderation standard. So we still just have more of this shitty weird moderation that's hands off except when they personally disagree or don't like someone, that promotes 'attack the idea not the person' but has no fucking clue of where that line is (as mod participation in the OC thread demonstrated), etc. I don't know that we need a forum-wide revolution but yeah, maybe test 'actually be nice' on the forum where that was supposed to be the goal? Instead of just more half-assing it.

I'd agree with most of this. But, I still haven't seen it be near as bad as it was back in the heyday of angry grump posting that this site's previous iterations have seen and I'll stand by that, whether I've been actively posting or not.

@auspice said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@roz said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee something something don't call people assholes outside the hog pit something something

Honestly, I'm seeing more some disturbing levels of gaslighting attempts at this point.

In what way? I feel like I've been very consistent.

@ganymede said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

You're still sort of buying into the weird idea that assholes put out that 'dogpiling' is inherently negative.

Why would you state your opinion in opposition to another's when someone else has said exactly the same thing?

What are you adding to the conversation?

That's what I'm saying - why does only one person get to express any given opinion? Why is a person saying 'yeah I agree with poster#378, this isn't a good thing to do'. a heinous crime?

You have to understand how silly this question is, right?

@tempest said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

Did I not get the memo on "gaslighting is the new buzzword"? I swear this is the only place I hear this phrase come up more than once in a blue moon, and weirdly enough, it seems to only ever come from a certain crowd.

Yeah, people are very upset that I disagreed with them online about disagreements online so they're reaching as hard as they can. They can go back to it. There's a reason I tend toward just lurking.

@saosmash said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

I feel like no arguments get more heated in the constructive part of the forum than arguments about our moderation standards. I've now read this whole thread and I'm honestly not sure why.

Yeah. I asked for examples of people dogpiling for no reason, and I was delivered it in spades.