Best posts made by friendlybee

@insomnia said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@arkandel said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@lisse24 said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

That being said, dogpiling does happen on this forum, a lot.

It does. And I want to come up with a way to address it that's not worse than the original problem.

Having been dog-piled on, on former iterations of the board, for game stuff, not social stuff, I'm not entirely sure not dog-piling is possible. I mean the very first versions of the board were ostensibly made to post about the shitty / stupid things staff were doing on WoD games so people could mock and laugh at them. Dog-piling has been in every form of the forums, even IGU, though not nearly as bad. It's part of the DNA of the board. Sure, the discussions have been added to since that time, but they in no means have moved on. Especially since we, as a community hold on to grudges in a way that is in no way healthy.

Not saying it's a good thing, but it's still a thing. And let's face it joking about it being 1995 again or not, it doesn't change the fact that people being fired / removed from games because of whatever version of the board there is has been a thing. An extreme, stupid thing, but a thing because dog-piling has been a thing since the start in one form or another.

Plus I mean, Greater Internet Fuckwad Theory and all...

Because really, what are the consequences if you are an asshole to someone on the forum? Even getting booted isn't a deterrent for some people or you guys wouldn't need a thread that someone has been banned, again, getting updated every so often.

Like you said, it's kind of hard to avoid 'dogpiling' if your definition of dogpiling is 'multiple people disagree with me'. I don't feel that to be a useful definition.

I understand that it can go to extreme lengths and end up being very unpleasant, but 'I can't convince this person that I'm correct' seems to be enough to bring out claims of dogpiling. I think a better definition is needed, and this thread seems like it was designed to allow for that discussion.

@three-eyed-crow said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee
Yeah, I mean, if you look at the member list, the majority of users registered lurk and don't post a ton, which is most forums. I think it's interesting to read what someone uninvolved in the same fight 20 times thinks, because it's probably not wrapped up in petty grudges from that asshole who upvoted a post where somebody was mean about me that time or whatever.

Yeah, I dunno. I guess I've seen some slapfights, but it feels to me more like 'omg its the 6 fingered man making a post! I must defeat them now!!!' more than 'these posts are particularly vitriolic and negative to a degree that demands almost 300 posts about whether its ok to have more than one person disagree with an opinion'.

People are mad because mu*ers have been mad for decades because we're all miserable weirdos. That's why we play online TT nerd games where we pretend to be sexy vampires.

And like you said. Posters can't even deal with being DOWNVOTED. The least in your face version of disagreement. The problem is that a lot of people on this forum seem to be very inured to the idea that they can say and do whatever they want, and anyone saying that they disagree is the same as a punch in the face, or government censorship.

I think that's silly.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@kanye-qwest Fair point. Like I said, I can't drink, so I'm hitting the gas and I guess I didn't see the wall.

i hereby solemnly vow that i will neither by word nor deed seek to oppress your rl rights on this here internet forum for nerdy weirdos.

Can we move on now to the topic of forum moderation?

@ganymede said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee

When I said "absence of experience," I was referring to your self-professed inactivity on places like this. What I was saying is that we've tread through a particular topic before, which is why some of us are exasperated with certain ideas, arguments, or situations.

And when I said I'd been around for forever, it meant that I've been reading all those threads right alongside you. And I haven't noticed anything like the level of venom that some people are claiming is happening here. I also have admitted several times that I could be wrong. Don't try to diminish my contributions because I have a low post count.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I think I specified my situation quite well, honestly. You need to read back.

Because my government can and will use the words I say on the internet against me, without the very flimsy cover of anonymity. Which they can break just as well with a subpoena.

By the way, the right to express oneself is a basic human right. You are correct this is a privately-owned forum, and not all speech here is allowed. I express myself within the framework that's already set, which I do not want to see tightened. Ergo. I argue for the status quo.

And others disagree. I am sorry you live in a place that can/will censor your ability to express yourself.

It's just not all that relevant in the discussion of forum moderation.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee You label the words, not knowing that words can be used in any context, including satire, parody and other forms of dark humor/schadenfreude.

The moment you attribute labels to words in the same way people often attribute labels to people to discredit their viewpoints or simply to deflect from them, is the moment that censorship begins. After all, that's what 1984 is about, the totalitarian point of view in which the potential of a word to hurt means it has to expunged from the lexicon outright.

Your next step is to start burning dictionaries and books that have the words, a la Fahrenheit 451.

wowza that's a spicy take!!!!!!

@ganymede said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

Absolutely, that seems very reasonable to me. the majority of my position has been 'Calm down about people disagreeing with you online everyone. It's not the end of the world.'

In response to that, I would say: that's one part of it.

The other part is: if arguing on the internet is pointless, then so is hyperbole; type clearly and concisely if you are actually trying to say something meaningful.

I guess. I disagree with you there. To me it's more this:

There is a social cost with being an asshole (using sjw as a pejorative, saying the c-word, etc.). If you don't want to pay the social cost of being an asshole (being made fun of, ostracism, hyperbolically negative replies, etc.) then don't be an asshole.

I realize you aren't talking about just this instance, but.. that's the only one that started this thread. And it's the only one I've discussed. By all means, if you want to discuss other instances? Please bring them up here! I'm sure people will be more than willing to talk about those and how to improve.

That said, in response to your last paragraph:

Your mental health is more important than the latest gossip about which 6 dicked Crinos BSD player is banging which of the latest crop of Arx Princesses this week and why that's a really bad thing for the community. Stay out of the Hog Pit, and have staff dish out bans/deletions when people do weird stuff outside of it. I've been lurking for a while and I haven't really seen it. It's definitely been a thing in the past, but the quoted post on page 1 that Ark used as an example was certainly not an example of hogpiling in any way, shape, or form. And that was FROM the hog pit!

@three-eyed-crow said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

I don't even so much want downvotes back (dear God the wangsting, and I'm sure it'd create more mod problems) as I miss a mild form of 'this is incorrect' between just putting a user on ignore (which is what I've taken to doing when a poster makes the same nonsense asshole post over and over again) and joining in dogpiling.

You're still sort of buying into the weird idea that assholes put out that 'dogpiling' is inherently negative. Speaking up about your opinions, even if other people disagree with them, is a good thing to do. Don't buy into the narrative of the sunnyj's and lisse24's that claim they're 'being attacked' when someone disagrees with them. That's how shitty opinions go unanswered, and its a good way to let a place become poison.

edit: Using dogpiling as distinct from 'hogpiling' or whatever we want to call it, where you're just an unrepentant asshole for no reason. Disagreement =/= being an asshole.

@auspice said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@tempest said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

Did I not get the memo on "gaslighting is the new buzzword"? I swear this is the only place I hear this phrase come up more than once in a blue moon, and weirdly enough, it seems to only ever come from a certain crowd.

I do not think I have ever made the accusation on these boards. However, it was the specifically naming SunnyJ as someone who complains about dogpiling/attacks/et al that pinged my spidey senses here because SunnyJ is probably one of the more chill people on the boards who has no fucks to give on a general basis.

As for the 'arguing with' I actually noted to Gany and Ark both already that this is already, very obviously, a troll and what my personal recommendation is.

Oh, I think sunnyj is the guy who said the sjw thing, or maybe the c-word in the other thread. That's why I brought them up. I absolutely may have been misremembering.

Also, I'm not a puppet or anything. Just a lurker who realizes once again why this site's many iterations are just the same 20 conversations on repeat for the past 15 years. My mistake for having a calm and rational discussion in the constructive forum.

@kanye-qwest said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@arkandel Wait, so this is meant to be a discussion about dogpiling, now?

I mean, it's a message forum, where things are written out, and not in real time. How are you going to stop 'dogpiling' in a way that isn't 'only X number of people may give their opinion on any topic/post"?

People, modern US conservatives especially, hate it when their pet issues are disagreed with by anyone. Having multiple people disagree with them makes them feel 'teamed up on' and causes them to complain about having to be made aware of the fact that their opinions are less popular than they'd like for them to be.

Complaints bother the people in charge of the (forum/game/etc.) and negative coded terms like 'dogpiling' get thrown around.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee The same could be said of modern US liberals, but the game of pointing fingers and using labels, once again, is counter-productive.

A bold claim, when this entire thread was spawned because someone said 'hey can we not use the c-word please?' and it resulted in a screaming/sobbing fit that's still ongoing by a very upset conservative, angry they had to face social consequences for open misogyny.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@kanye-qwest said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee i don't think it has anything at all to do with being 'conservative'. Most conservatives I know don't resort to namecalling for the sake of being edgy. Calling someone a cunt is just someone being an asshole. It's not a political thing at all until people start dropping "SJW" to dismiss those who object.

And, just for context's sake, it really depends on which English-speaking region you're coming from! I don't really think Australians are trying to insult someone when they call someone that.

Absolutely, the word wasn't the issue the 'omg free speech' stuff that's come out because someone politely asked for it not to be used was the eyerolly part.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee In all seriousness, the dogpiling around here is way more cliquish, high school, mean-girl style bullshit. From all sides.

Sometimes, we all come together when some horrible Godzilla monster jackass emerges to form Voltron, but otherwise... it's high school. Which sucks. A lot. But it's what we've got.

Yeah I used to be on wora and I'm recently back to the hobby.

Have you considered just not worrying about what weird mu* nerds think about you? It's very effective at insulating you from the high school drama.

@arkandel said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

Can we please guide this back away from RL politics and into forum ones or something?

Sure, the RL politics were inserted by whomever wrote the thread title though, might wanna talk to them.

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that people agree with you. I guess I'm too dumb to understand your point - some people think its Very Important that they be allowed to use misogynistic/racist/homophobic slurs on this internet forum for various reasons.

Some people think it's ok to laugh at and call out the people who use those kinds of words.

The people that want to use those words are v. upset that they got laughed at a little, and here we are. What's our next move?

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt here that you just don't realize how patronizing or condescending that response is. Or how misplaced.

You're still grossly mischaracterizing this situation.

It would be nice if this was as simple as 'some naughty little children would like to use slurs willy nilly', but it's not. That would be relatively easy to solve.

Seriously. Read the thread before continuing on in the way you are. This is becoming somewhat tiresome.

Bring up the other stuff. The only thing that's getting brought up (I'll admit, by me because it's the part I find the most hilarious/eyeroll worthy) is the slur aspect of it.

What issues do you feel need to be addressed in this thread labeled 'SJW and other acronyms'? I'm more than open to talking about those as well.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee Ask Arkandel, I didn't start the fucking thread.

Oh, you were very excited about telling me what to post in it, so I thought you might have an idea.

@arkandel said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee @surreality could you please take this feud to personal messages or other threads?

Sure! This slapfight isn't likely to go anywhere anyway. @surreality can PM if they want to continue.

Absolutely, that seems very reasonable to me. the majority of my position has been 'Calm down about people disagreeing with you online everyone. It's not the end of the world.'