Posts made by friendlybee

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@insomniac7809 They inflict hurt while nominally talking about removing it. What's the purpose of Emmanuel Goldstein, if not to be a foil to the frustrations of a society that is forbidden from engaging in courtship rituals, kept from absolute mastery of their own language by replacing it with a government-approved construct and the careful censorship and disappearance acts of anything that might hurt the party line and allow people to have individual opinions?

It's certainly not an attempt to protect disadvantaged groups within the culture!!

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee That's part of the issue.

This thread isn't meant for 'poking at people'. It's supposed to be constructive. Trying to rile or upset or mock people in this way to stir the pot? Generally not constructive or productive or informative.

Again... you do you.

If you're well-intentioned, read up on whatever before commenting. The situation is, unfortunately, not simple. If it was, it would have been resolved ages ago.

I didn't create the thread. I didn't ask for the thread to be created. In the thread that spawned this one, I am sighing and wincing and asking people to not do this.

Now, I'm sighing and wincing because people are doing this, because SunnyJ and Tempest were lolwhut'ing at Seraphim74 politely asking that we not use the word, and Coin explaining in simple language why the word is problematic.

We are all arguing to no good end, and the two people who spawned the conversation with their lolwhuts are nowhere to be found, and probably not even interested.

I'm still unsure what is compelling you to continue reading a thread that seems to be causing you such emotional strife.

I was specifically concerned with one aspect of the forum moderation argument - words like that are definitely disrespectful and intended to harm. It's ok to moderate those kinds of words. The person I was talking to was explicitly saying it's not ok to censor those words. I poked at their argument for why it was bad to censor those words.

You've taken issue with me disagreeing with deadculture since I started doing it. Am I not allowed to express my opinions here because you don't like them? I haven't been rude - I've been a little playful about it, sure, and that's a little dismissive. I even admitted that I shouldn't've pointed out, in my first post, that conservatives tend to be the ones who get very upset when they get told what they're doing is uncool.

I get that you want me to be quiet and go away. But nobody is forcing you to read this. If they are, please let me know and I'll be on the phone with the police immedaitely so that they can track down the man with the gun that's forcing you to read and reply here, or is preventing you from using the ignore button if you really think I deserve that.

I'm having a constructive argument - it's just against the status quo.

@faraday said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@tinuviel said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

In reality, though, I don't ever want to not be able to argue with someone simply because what I'm arguing against is a strongly held belief. The stronger the hold, the stronger one's ability to defend should be.

I agree. All I'm saying is that I'd prefer for people to argue respectfully.

Alas, with strangers on the internet, that seems to be a bridge too far without pretty strenuous moderation.

Absolutely agreed. That's pretty much the point of my (admittedly, at times semi-disrespectfully irreverent) argument.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I'd actually prefer not to hear from you enough I'm considering ignore, so not sure where you're getting that idea. I value my time, and you seem keen on wasting it with what I consider really juvenile trolling that isn't even very good or creative.

That's your choice obviously. I'm not trying to waste your time, I was mostly talking to/poking at the guy that thinks a private forum asking users not to use the c-word is akin to Fahrenheit 451 level censorship.

And making fun of the idea that 'multiple people disagree with me!!' is a reason to be upset.

Sorry you were bothered, you actually seem fine. If unsure what you're after in conversations sometimes.

ok, that's also fine! You just seemed eager to try and get a certain response out of me, and I can't figure out what it is unless you tell me.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee You are assuming a lot.

Then explain, I've invited you to a number of times!

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I was telling you to read before sticking your foot any further in your mouth, actually; your words are all 'you do you'.

I'm fine with the location of my foot. I was talking about one issue that was brought up in this thread and never claimed that it was fully representative of all of the potential issues.

I'm still not sure why you're so upset at me for posting on an internet forum in a way you disapprove of.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee Ask Arkandel, I didn't start the fucking thread.

Oh, you were very excited about telling me what to post in it, so I thought you might have an idea.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I'm just going to give you the benefit of the doubt here that you just don't realize how patronizing or condescending that response is. Or how misplaced.

You're still grossly mischaracterizing this situation.

It would be nice if this was as simple as 'some naughty little children would like to use slurs willy nilly', but it's not. That would be relatively easy to solve.

Seriously. Read the thread before continuing on in the way you are. This is becoming somewhat tiresome.

Bring up the other stuff. The only thing that's getting brought up (I'll admit, by me because it's the part I find the most hilarious/eyeroll worthy) is the slur aspect of it.

What issues do you feel need to be addressed in this thread labeled 'SJW and other acronyms'? I'm more than open to talking about those as well.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@kanye-qwest Fair point. Like I said, I can't drink, so I'm hitting the gas and I guess I didn't see the wall.

i hereby solemnly vow that i will neither by word nor deed seek to oppress your rl rights on this here internet forum for nerdy weirdos.

Can we move on now to the topic of forum moderation?

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee You label the words, not knowing that words can be used in any context, including satire, parody and other forms of dark humor/schadenfreude.

The moment you attribute labels to words in the same way people often attribute labels to people to discredit their viewpoints or simply to deflect from them, is the moment that censorship begins. After all, that's what 1984 is about, the totalitarian point of view in which the potential of a word to hurt means it has to expunged from the lexicon outright.

Your next step is to start burning dictionaries and books that have the words, a la Fahrenheit 451.

wowza that's a spicy take!!!!!!

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing that people agree with you. I guess I'm too dumb to understand your point - some people think its Very Important that they be allowed to use misogynistic/racist/homophobic slurs on this internet forum for various reasons.

Some people think it's ok to laugh at and call out the people who use those kinds of words.

The people that want to use those words are v. upset that they got laughed at a little, and here we are. What's our next move?

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I think I specified my situation quite well, honestly. You need to read back.

Because my government can and will use the words I say on the internet against me, without the very flimsy cover of anonymity. Which they can break just as well with a subpoena.

By the way, the right to express oneself is a basic human right. You are correct this is a privately-owned forum, and not all speech here is allowed. I express myself within the framework that's already set, which I do not want to see tightened. Ergo. I argue for the status quo.

And others disagree. I am sorry you live in a place that can/will censor your ability to express yourself.

It's just not all that relevant in the discussion of forum moderation.

@arkandel said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

Can we please guide this back away from RL politics and into forum ones or something?

Sure, the RL politics were inserted by whomever wrote the thread title though, might wanna talk to them.

@surreality said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee In all seriousness, the dogpiling around here is way more cliquish, high school, mean-girl style bullshit. From all sides.

Sometimes, we all come together when some horrible Godzilla monster jackass emerges to form Voltron, but otherwise... it's high school. Which sucks. A lot. But it's what we've got.

Yeah I used to be on wora and I'm recently back to the hobby.

Have you considered just not worrying about what weird mu* nerds think about you? It's very effective at insulating you from the high school drama.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee I only started arguing for free speech the moment people started arguing for proactive moderation of words in the Hog Pit, with or without specific harmful/discriminatory context.

Then, and I don't mean this rudely, you don't know what free speech entails.

You're not being oppressed by a government. A private forum is being moderated for content that serves no purpose except to be upsetting.

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@kanye-qwest said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee i don't think it has anything at all to do with being 'conservative'. Most conservatives I know don't resort to namecalling for the sake of being edgy. Calling someone a cunt is just someone being an asshole. It's not a political thing at all until people start dropping "SJW" to dismiss those who object.

And, just for context's sake, it really depends on which English-speaking region you're coming from! I don't really think Australians are trying to insult someone when they call someone that.

Absolutely, the word wasn't the issue the 'omg free speech' stuff that's come out because someone politely asked for it not to be used was the eyerolly part.

Makes sense - I read the tone as much more upset due to the creation of this thread. If it really was just a quick back and forth that was lol'd out of existence, then this thread seems like a giant and unnecessary overreaction.

@surreality My b then, it seemed like the guy was much more upset in my reading - and the creation of this thread, and the posts within it seemed to play into that. It's the internet, people getting upset is kind of subjective.

If nobody was mad, why does this thread exist?

@deadculture said in MSB, SJW, and other acronyms:

@friendlybee Not so bold, when there are prime examples literally everywhere on this forum. Your attempt to frame your argument in a way that makes you sound like you're an authority on the subject notwithstanding, @surreality points out the wholly non-partisan nature of dogpiling.

It really just depends whether you've a tough crowd for your ideas or not.

@Tinuviel I know a sugarcane-based distilled drink that would get you drunk enough for ANY MSB discussions.

By all means, provide links and evidence of this problem. I probably shouldn't've inserted that little dig, I'm aware that 'multiple people disagreeing with you' is a problem that is not entirely political, but this very thread was started because an upset conservative cried 'FREE SPEECH' when they were politely asked not to use a slur and people laughed at them for it.