Posts made by il-volpe

@Balerion said:

Regardless of your feelings on the matter, GRRM did make it plain that he does not like people running on-line, fan-run games (such as MU*s) without his permission.

In essence, I don't think that's plain.

I don't conflate "Hrumph, I wish they had asked," with "I just hate it when people do this, and feel shat on by it," nor do I conflate "I refer them to your game," with "Your game is the only game I want to exist." What communication I have had with him (which is minimal and certainly not enough that he'd recognize me) makes me feel pretty confident of said opinions. I would even hazard that he wants games based on his world to be fun.

As for what he's comfortable with, if he was really just only comfortable with you special souls as gamemasters back in the day, I'd be a little surprised. The state of the fandom, and all the various games available based on IaF now make it pretty clear that he's pretty damn comfortable with people RPing in his world.

He sold the table-top rights to a specific company. Any issues with how the table-top game is being used would fall to the table-top company to deal with. Since he has not sold the MUSH rights, it is not strange that his approval would remain a case-by-case matter when it comes to such games.

Oh? And suppose somebody uses not just some of Green Ronin's source material to make a MUSH, but only that material? Would you then deem their game to be 'disrespectful' to Mr. Martin?

Exclusivity Rights matter. When BoD was in 'development' for all that time, rights to use the world setting for gaming had not been sold. The existence of the MUSH would devalue those rights if the buyer wanted an exclusive contract.

Actually, I've no beef with your advert saying that you're the only authorized game, as this is simply true. The aforementioned blog's (and etc) complaints that other games are horrible, bad, disrespectful, and illegal annoys me, as does BoD's policy of (I hear) banning players who talk about other games.

Again, trying to pretend otherwise just to not have to feel bad about going against his wishes is self-serving and nothing else.

I don't think it's against his wishes, nor in compliance with them. I don't think he has wishes, in particular, about it. I don't think you can sell rights for a game and then tell people they can't play it online. Or mess with the dice system if you are so inclined. It's self-serving to pretend that you've got exclusive rights to RP the theme. Especially when it's only other MUSHes that seem to bug you -- admittedly my following of blog is rare, but honestly, a person cannot have internet access and an interest in IaF fandom without eventually coming into contact with this. If it was really all about protecting the author's IP from these disrespectful games, the rabbiting about it would extend to the enormous number of play-by-post forum games, and to the Second Life sims, the latter of which seem to be actively encouraged.

Likewise, actually. Millions still want to read that desc and the glorious aftermath.

Though, actually, from what I'm told by the BoD refugees, Balerion is pretty decent.

@Balerion said:

We do not see this as fundamentally different from this statement:

"Writing something for your private amusement and "sharing it with a few friends"

That's funny, because there is indeed a difference between, "I don't like it, but it's whatever, so long as you're only sharing it with a few friends," and "I don't like it, but whatever, so long as you don't show it to me."

There's nothing in the world a fan-fic writer can do to harm his IP. I understand completely why he doesn't like it. There's got to be something icky about reading your work imitated, especially since fanfiction is so often so very very bad. But in terms of risk to his franchise, there is zero, and in terms of risk to his reputation, well, if somebody writes it and tries to pass it off as Martin's work, I hope he puts the leeches on them.

Yes, he realises that he cannot police the Internet when it comes to unauthorized use of his IP. That does not change his feelings about the matter and his feelings are what matter to us. I find it peculiar that it arouses so much ire that his collaborators on a book wish to respect his feelings (and wish that others would do so, too).

The fanfic bit? Oh, you're totally correct not to publish or link to that stuff on Westeros.org, etc. Mr. Martin's earlier statements concerning it are somewhat goofy sometimes, as if he really doesn't get how it can't hurt him. His current stance of 'Don't show it to me!" (which no doubt includes the more important, "And for god's sake, don't pretend I had anything to do with it!") is pretty darn standard, and as you run a major fansite, probably THE major fansite (and it's damn good, and many thanks for it!) it would be pretty crappy to post, link, or discuss fanfic there.

But the gaming stuff? It arouses ire because it's hostile to the gaming community. BoD appears to use it to attempt to force players who are interested in the world to have no choice but to play BoD, or be shamed, told they're disrespecting a beloved author if they play elsewhere.

However, by selling the rights to a table-top game, he definitely gave approval for running those sort of games. Thus, it still holds that he is fine with games as long as he has approved them.

Indeed. But the idea that he approves table-top games, but for MUSHes it's a case-by-case basis is weird. Sure, being consulted is nice when you have the time for it, but saying he condemns those he has not been consulted about, well, it once again implies either idiocy or a failure to understand that a MUSH is a role-playing game, like any other.

What you suspect is irrelevant unless you have a quote from GRRM. The quote we supplied makes it clear that while he still had time to answer such queries, he did direct people to our game.

Oh, when other such quotes appear, haha.

As for yours, it fails to answer the real question: Does he recognize that a MUSH is fundamentally similar to the table-top games which he does approve, and that, consequently, the player-GM relationship is fundamental to the game being worth playing, and if so does he really want to force all MU* gamers to play with you guys or not at all?

If you want to be disrespectful to GRRM, assume that the answer is yes.

BoD appears to assume it is yes, to the mild annoyance of other MU players, and in a situation where now the person (Mr. Martin) who could clarify doesn't have time for such silliness.

As you can see by the first email on our FAQ page, he was very concerned about even approving our game and he wanted to be sure he only approved a game where the owners would respect his work and protect his rights.

Yep. Some of that clearly had to do with him not being entirely clear on what a MUSH really is. Though at the time, it was also far more relevant -- issues of rights exclusivity were still in play. Now, not at all.

@Balerion

Martin has since stated a sane position on fan-fiction: "I am opposed to fan fiction, but people can do whatever they want for their own personal amusement, so long as they don't send it to me."

A MUSH is either a fiction-engine or a game. If it's a fiction-engine, the above is relevant. If it is a game, well. Mr. Martin is not an idiot, and it would require that he be one for him to have both sold rights to Green Ronin to publish a game (which he did) based on his world yet also think that it's disrespectful to him to play a game based on his world (there's no reliable evidence that he does, and the bit about Windhaven predates any ASOIAF RPGs by twelve years.)

As for him directing people to your game as the only authorized one, I suspect that if somebody were to come to him and say, "Yes, I know you have authorized 'Blood of Dragons,' but honestly, I do not want to play with that GM, please excuse me for playing some other text-based online RPG based on your world," he'd probably go, "Huh? When the heck did I say you shouldn't? Sod off, I'm busy here." For one, the man's an old D&D player. The idea that people might not want to play the game as Nymeria runs it is unlikely to be something foreign or deplorable to him.

It is a fact that Blood of Dragons is the only MUSH authorized by George R. R. Martin, but the idea that he condemns others or finds them disrespectful is pretty thin at best, and is so obviously self-serving of BoD that it makes one question just how out-of-context those email quotes might be.

Just so.

Possibly it's somebody's bag.

But I wish they'd stop pretending that GRRM forbids all MUSHes but theirs.

http://gobmush.wikidot.com/grid-map

I wish I had a pretty one that looked like a proper map, but this works very well for people. Even in the cases when the line goes like, north-by-northwest and it says N on the grid and shit.

When I make rules about game-mechanicy stuff (like the one that spread everybody's points out, or whether or not we have chocolate in the world, or the tyrannical building policy) I am open about it, chat with people, often ask them to make their opinions and preferences known (unless, like with the building policy, I have no intention of heeding those preferences) and heed said preferences within what I think is reason, and explain my reasoning when I announce the decision. These things become 'rules' which are documented. Weirdly, as all-above-board as that is, some folks /still/ thought I made that sheet-nerfing ruling to benefit a pal.

When it's player-conduct stuff, there are only a couple 'rules' and while it's more detailed than "don't be a dick," what's written makes it clear that you don't have to violate a written rule to get removed from the game. This kind of thing ends up a private discussion. Of course somebody's gonna think it's unfair a lot of the time, that being the somebody who got the talking-to and his friends to whom he misrepresented the conversation. But I have no idea how to minimize that effect without making a situation where fucking up not only means you get a boring conversation with me, possibly a temp ban, etc, AND get embarrassed before the entire game.

If it's for a MUSH, just make it look sorta like a flow-chart, with boxes and lines.

@Three-Eyed-Crow

Yep. In the past, though, GoB has seen a wee flood of growth with the new season of the show. Not this year.

Haha! @JaySherman . You rock.

@Roz said:

I believe strongly that the appearance of fairness is just as important as fairness in practice.

Is this even possible? I had someone, very courteously and with the best intention of helping me not to suck, inform me that I shouldn't make policies to benefit my friends. In response to a change that everyone hated short-term, because it spread out stat points and effectively weakened all characters. And which my friend, whom they believed I was benefiting with the change, bitched about more than anyone. (Likely because, being my friend, he felt safe to bitch.)

I had somebody post on WORA about how I refused to ban someone because I 'wanted her to like' me while I was willing to ban others. The actual difference was not that I cared especially if non-banned player liked me, but that she actually corrected her irritating behaviors, and then produced other ones due to an inability to generalize, while those I banned refused to accept and comply with my rulings.

The whole balance of transparency vs privacy seems to lead to people accusing one of unfairness. Either that or one has to make any discussion one has with a player about any unwelcome behavior some sort of ugly free-for-all town-hall-meeting thing, which I am not about to do.

So WTF, did people just stop watching the series this season?

Game of Bones is always super delighted to have players who want to run plots. If you like to GM, we want you.

Do you like to GM but hate the admin duties of staffing? Hey, you're free of those. Got a problem player? Pass the buck, he's my problem. People bitching that you're running plots for group Z, but not for them? Tell 'em to bitch at me, 'cause it's not your problem, it's my problem. Don't like the pressure to come up with plot after plot when you're RP staff? Fuck it, take a break, run plots when you feel like it. The goal is to let you have all the fun of storytelling without the sucky shit that comes with staffing a MUSH, and while I may suck at this, I do listen and adapt and do my bit to make that sweet spot a reality for you.

@crusader said:

@Arkandel
Honestly, what you have described sounds less like a Consent-based game (which I find boring) and more like an ICA=ICC game, which I approve of.

Indeed. I would not describe GoB as consent-based. When I hear that, I think "diceless" and I don't want a diceless game. Dice are fun. Not knowing what will happen is fun. Having a non-human system of arbitration is fun. Having different skills and different levels in those skills is fun. Having things go unexpectedly well or unexpectedly badly is fun. The sense of tension and risk created by dice is fun.

The non-fun part is losing a character you don't want to lose, because of a series of bad rolls. So I did away with that.

Eh. This, barring #5, is how GoB goes.

More or less. A PC will not die, be crippled, or otherwise be permanently removed from play or transformed into something unplayable (in the player's consideration) without the player's consent. Players may not be ridiculous about this.

Failures and successes, including PvP contested roll type ones, are up to the dice. If players happen to feel like deciding among themselves how something turns out, whatever. It's neither encouraged nor discouraged. But you don't get to say, "I don't want Bill to be able to intimidate me, regardless of his intimidation points!" if Bill wants to do a contested roll.

However, if Bill hits you really good with an ax and it really ought to kill you or maim you, you get to live and keep your leg, by force of absurd luck. If Bill's player is absolutely determined to kill you and insists that he'd behead you right there, well, he and I would probably have a talk and figure out WTF.

So far, there have been zero problems with this that were not related to Ravaun/Vuk.

I don't know if mediawiki and wikidot work much alike, but you're welcome to the code off GoB's wiki to do this.

Hah. I am hesitant to ever throw a red herring, because people tend to assume that everything is one.

Specifics have been changed: I run a scene. The psychic character's psychic powers reveal to her that she is going to see a strange house behind that next stand of trees. The characters go look. There's a chicken there. The psychic character pages me, "But you said it would be a house!" I page back, "I did indeed." Psychic character jumps to the conclusion that I'm just messing with her, even though her roll was good. She doesn't tell the other characters about her vision of the house. Bedamned if I am going to reward this bullshit. So I have just run a plot scene where all that happened is the characters saw a chicken. Later I'll throw the same plot hook at a different group of characters and hope they actually investigate in a reasonable way, all the while praying that my new reputation as the GM who thinks seeing a chicken is a plot event does not cause them to avoid me.

@Arkandel said:

My experience has been pretty much the exact opposite. Someone makes an +event that seems so very ordinary that I expect something cool to happen. It's like... "beach party!". So, okay, I go, and since this is a game of personal horror I figure hey, maybe zombies will come out of the black waves, or maybe an amoeba-formed human-shaped abomination will start absorbing the flesh of horny teenagers.

See, I think that should happen /sometimes/ but not /every/ time. 'Cause not everything that's on-screen on the MUSH should be on-screen if it was a teevee show.

Though also, I am not running a game of personal horror, exactly. so I've been sort of bemused when I bring my staff alt to the festival and get pages asking me when I'm gonna have the dragon attack. Sure, sometimes dragons attack birthday parties.

@Bennie I do sort of try to differentiate social events from action ones, in the event descriptions. A regular beach party, that's just a beach party, I would describe as a beach party. If I intended a sea monster to flop up on the beach and start eating people, I'd add something like, "There will be blood!"

Haha. Yeah. It's a sort of peeve of mine when people expect every wedding/festival/ball/whatever to also include something totally unexpected and probably violent.

@Arkandel said:

I'm also moving away from big events that involve as many players as possible for multiple reasons.

This could be a rough one -- I like to run some events that could involve everyone. They don't, because not everyone is there or wants to join in at the time, but I want them to be events where anyone who's connection schedule allows them to join in, can.

@Pyrephox

I took his meaning differently -- the 'metaplot' being something that's going on that characters RP about, within, around. A thing that's happening that PCs can effect, which is in that sense an overarching story for the game, but not something that the PCs must solve in some particular way.

The example that springs to mind is 'The Stand.' The first half, where the disease shows up and all the NPC-like characters die and the PC-like characters have to escape from New York and meet up, and meet one another and try to rebuild society is a kindly sort of metaplot. The second half, where they have to defeat Flagg, is the other sort. As a plot for the main characters of the book to be PCs in, it's great, but as the Most Important Thing Happening On The Game it's mean, because everybody else has to sit back and watch, and they can't continue their RP if the Flagg-fighters fuck it up, and, etc.

This is probably a shitty example, alas.