Ban abusers, even if they are good writers
And even if they run lots of events.
Zero tolerance for certain behaviours is probably a very important step. I've left more than one game because nothing was done about horrendous behaviour and chicanery, whether towards me or someone else. And entirely too often, that abuse does in fact come from staff or from someone of whom staff will say, 'he's a friend, he'd never do that'.
@faraday said in Battling FOMO (any game):
If you're just running a game to play with your friends, there's nothing inherently wrong with that. Just be up front about it. Ultimately, nobody is paying for a service, or forced to be there. If it isn't fun, don't play.
This. Nothing wrong with creating a game for your friends. I am on one with just seven players, all is good. But if you do open the game to the public and invite everyone in -- then you need to have at least thought about what you're offering. Or make it clear from the landing page that they're welcome to use the same sandbox, but stuff is not going to be made with the specific purpose of inclusion.
@pyrephox said in Battling FOMO (any game):
And then...time passes. And no one asks for RP. And the little voice goes, "Oh. OH. So I was bothering people, and no one actually enjoys playing with me. That sucks. Now I feel bad that I was being a pain in the ass for people."
I strongly suspect this is the case for the majority of MU* players. At least it's painfully familiar, and almost everyone else I play with regularly say the same thing. So the trick is to create situations where you don't need to hinge on invitations or connections that already exist. Breaking the ice. Connecting people, without the burden of connection making being on one side only.
It wears people down, always reaching out. Because the brain weasel does get you: Are they only responding because I don't leave them alone?
I find that open scenes and open plot events are a very big deal when it comes to battling this. Make it hinge less on me to reach out -- I am putting myself somewhere and signaling I'm available, and if people secretly hate my company they can just not turn up.
Yes. Simply put. More so after I became too disabled to have much of a social life in meatspace.
Making online friends is as joyful. Losing them hurts just as much.
@silverfox said in RL-Friendly Game Design:
@devrex said in RL-Friendly Game Design:
@L-B-Heuschkel does a great job of GMing async and making it really fun and I'm not sure what his techniques are there or what he's doing differently that I'm not doing (or if he's just wired differently as a GM) but.
I think it's just that they HAVE TO DO IT or they'd never RP. You grow into whatever restraints you have to.
Bit of both.
I don't really have a choice, playing from Europe. But I've also come to enjoy that I can present people with quandaries that require more thought -- because they don't have to react at an instant.
I also have a hard rule that if someone doesn't pose for 24 hours I move the scene on -- unless they've let me know that something is up. Real life happens to people, after all.
@Pandora said in Armageddon MUD:
@L-B-Heuschkel said in Armageddon MUD:
Oh good lord, no. If it says 'contains sex and violence' on the label, expect it to contain sex and violence.
I wish. But no, if it contains sex anyone doesn't like, violence that isn't OOCly prearranged and agreed upon by all parties, and heaven forbid it mixes sex & violence together - you are bound to have a shitstorm or two because there really is no line of demarcation between IC action and OOC motive anymore, if MSB is to be taken as any indication of public sentiment.
This is where I want to argue that the human race has not had a collective lobotomy that I'm aware of, but I know how much effort certain people go to on some MMOs, to obtain screenshots and logs that might in any fashion appear suggestive, and the drama and uproar that follows in the wake of them posting these screenshots in public fora. Won't somebody think of the children, indeed.
I think I will maintain my previous stance. An OOC community and atmosphere intolerant of grooming, stalking, and abuse is a good start. Make it clear that rape jokes, threats of violence, verbal abuse and what have you is not acceptable -- unless it is indeed an IC reference, in which case anything within the game's rating goes.
But that's also all it is, a good start. There's always going to be somebody who thinks that the rules don't apply to them, someone who yells 'free speeeeech!' and thinks it means everyone else is obligated to listen to him, someone who posts a picture of a child posing in a supposedly sexy fashion on a police car.
Game mechanics are not the single answer to this, and neither is community atmosphere. But between them, they're probably the best answer we're going to get, because there is no way to solve this problem permanently and decisively.
@faraday Tempted to suggest changing the terminology to 'live' and 'asynchronous' instead. That way, the key isn't how fast people pose, but whether you should be able to expect a response within fairly short time, or within a day or two.
@Ghost Ain't anything that will protect from admins abusing the commands they have available to snoop on players. Only cure for that is indeed, as someone said, leaving a table where the game isn't fair.
Just a headsup that as of yesterday, KarmaBum and AlmightyMe have passed the game on to the next generation and Grimdarque is now the game runner. The transition to a new server went smoothly.
Speaking as a regular player I want to thank KBAM for the fantastic game they made as well as for having the grace to let it continue under new management.
Here's to another couple of years running from the Veil monsters!
@Arkandel Yes. This is why you need to know, from staff, where the edges of the sandbox are. What sort of loot can I let players take off with? What kind of change can I make?
And if the answer to either is 'none', I'm still good. I am very much the kind of story teller who values character development and moral quandaries over loot and boss kills; and of course this is also reflected in who decides to join my stuff. Not every event is for every audience, after all.
So for me, personally, the answer is still -- warm bodies, and clear instructions on what I can and cannot let my players do.
@Arkandel said in What do player-STs need?:
It can end up looking very much like staff does not want you to run a plot that has any impact at all, rather than just trying to make it fair and clear for everyone.
Yes. I have been places that fell into this pitfall. The rules need to be a hell of a lot simpler. Give me, "Nope, you can't make any long term change but feel free to give them some baubles and personal development" and I can work with that. Anything more complex, I'm happy to toss in a request first and get staff approval (or disapproval).
Just, please, don't make me read 500 pages to see if I can rules lawyer my way into possibly running something without ending up with a reprimand.
@Tinuviel I tend to be wary of 'if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear' because most often, it is an argument presented by those whom you really do want to hide things from; insurance companies, advertising agencies, and social media selling data to whoever wants to to influence politics and elections.
As always, the issue isn't really whether someone gets off on watching someone else write about celeries and Madonnas with ze big boobies, as much as it's about risks of stalking, doxxing, and other harassment. The only filter that actually -works-, though, is the one between hands and keyboard. If a MU has a policy and instructions on what to do when players or admins break rules, that's... probably all we can do.
@faraday said in What do player-STs need?:
It's a hard balance to strike, maintaining continuity, theme and fairness without discouraging folks in the process. You can try to be positive and encouraging, but some folks are just going to take it hard no matter what you do.
And sometimes, as a player running things, you just need to accept that not every game is made for you. Sometimes, what staff has laid down is not what you want. It doesn't mean anything else. Adapt to their vision, or find a game that is more aligned with your ideas.
Staff can lay out pretty clear guidelines. And sometimes, that's just not enough, or it's the wrong game, and it really doesn't mean more than that. Can't please everyone, can't get it right for everyone.
@Derp Rule of thumb I went with when I was a game admin went something like, public scene, public log, audience of at least two other people.
Literally everything is explained and Faraday is incredibly helpful.
@Arkandel Oh yes. I am aware. One of my real life friends is a GM at Blizzard. I'd rather marry a duck-billed platypus than take that job. I do think my point stands, though -- you send a signal as admins, on what is acceptable and what is not. Even if you can only give the illusion of fairness, you try -- and at least some players will buy into it. When you don't bother, then most players won't either.
Sitting in the barn with my horse, listening to her chewing her hay or keeping still as she naps with her head resting on my shoulder. I am ever baffled that 800 kilos of muscle horse can and will treat my disabled self as if I was her baby, made from glass.
@surreality Part of this whole issue is of course that no matter how well intentioned the staff may be, there's no pleasing everybody. And there's always someone who's either badly in need of a tinfoil hat, or badly prone to dramatics. I was accused once of setting up code to let me know when a player paged another in-game. I was a builder. I wouldn't have known where to -start-, tampering with MERC code like that.
@Derp said in Getting into Writing:
@L-B-Heuschkel said in Getting into Writing:
you learn ALL THE THINGS about pacing, keeping people interesting, setting scenes and moods, and moving a plot.
Do you though? Do you?
I mean, given that there are no small number of criticisms about our distinct lack of ability to do this, I sometimes wonder. You'd think that it would be a way to learn, but many of us seem to be lacking in some essential element.
I'm going to go with yes, if you want to, and you treat it as that -- a writing exercise. MU* people don't start out knowing how to do these things. They learn them as they go, and the more they pay attention to trying to learn, the faster they learn. And some, indeed, give no fucks and never learn. Just like a course in creative writing in real life, really.
I think the important thing to remember there is that we're at different places in our learning process and we want different things. What's an intense, emotional scene of great beauty to me may be eighty lines of purple prose to you and can we get on with the murderhoboing already. A romance writer has trouble enough communicating with a crime novelist -- now add different play styles to the picture and it's no wonder the arguments go on.
But it's all there. If you can find the engagement, and the game that matches what you are trying to learn to write.
@Roz said in MU Things I Love:
Sometimes I see people going through SUPER old posts -- like not month old, but months or even year+ old -- and I'm just so curious like, WHAT ARE YOU DOING OVER THERE
I'm new to the forum and I have time to kill, reading older threads because some of the discussions here are very interesting.
