Posts made by Thenomain

I coded one for Haunted Memories once, before they turned off player access to @pemit.

Then I coded one for The Reach for the Changeling's Winter Court members who were tired of staff harshing them on the Winter channel.

Then I created a 'say()' function because this kind of thing comes up more often than you might realize.

I don't have anything global, but it should not need zones. You might need to go to a '=<channel name>' convention, which makes me shudder with six billion demons poking needles in all my squishy bits. If nobody reveals one later, I'll see about it.

If I'm going to try Evennia, I'm going to try my hand at either 7th Sea or The Strange.

@Griatch said:

@Thenomain

OMG, so Evennia can get malware?!

Huh, where did that come from?

All the ad-based malware that's going around.

It came from dry humor, mixing ignorance with bad information. Sorry, I thought the excessive "OMG!"ing made it clear that the seriousness was nil.

We do have the advantage of free access to the huge (and now we are really talking huge) Python ecosystem though.

One thing that I think you have a very strong handle on, Griatch, that I don't think @acharles does is that it doesn't matter how big a repository of knowledge and information is if you are introducing it to a culture that knows nothing about it.

One of the hardest parts of me self-learning programming languages that are library-based is figuring out which one of the billions and billions of libraries do the one very specific tiny thing I want to do. All you need is 20(30?) years of experience to know, obviously.

Example: The one functioning bit of code I wanted to do in Python was rife with confusing explanation of what an MD5 check does, when all I wanted to do was to generate the check without the ton of work that the help files were implying I had to do. I turned to Ruby and immediately groked it.

I'm no longer harshing on "just learn Python and Git, duh" because it's becoming clear to all involved that this isn't just a simple cultural change. The growing pains are going to happen; I don't think anyone needs to—and almost no one has—reacted to this as a negative. Most of it is on our side and is mainly, "I ... I don't ... ow ... brain hurts ...."

By the way, the positive reaction here is fantastic. I'm ecstatic that Volund's excitement is justified.

I think it's clearer to say that you (and your contemporaries) have a huge body of established, stable, tested work to draw from, which is 100% Balls-To-The-Wall Awesome. This will make learning for the rest of us easier, but I would like to stress the '-er' on that just a bit, one last time.

I do wish I had the time, between maintaining the insanely complex code I have already created for WoD and the full-time job that does not allow me any desk-time, to dive in with both feet. Some day.

@Griatch said:

[paraphrased] Yes.

OMG, so Evennia can get malware?!

@Volund said:

Q) Can you run MUSHcode on Evennia?
A) No, but Python is objectively more powerful and widely supported than MUSHcode.

Thanks for thinking for me, dad.

Q) Can you import nWoD cgen from one game to another's?
A) Yes, although not necessarily the way you're thinking. In MUSHcode, you'd create an object, give it the right permissions, ensure the right attributes were admin-locked, make some rooms for chargen and call it good. maybe.

This is not entirely true. That it's true at all is the fault of the lack of imagination of Mu* coders. I don't entirely blame them, considering, but none of this has needed to be true for many long years.

My WoD Cgen is fully transportable with no need to mess around with anything more than making sure you have some sensible functions, like header() and footer(). It assumes some others, but makes places where this is easily fixed. The server-side config does not need touched at all.

It's also room-free. It's a global system because once the Master Room became a thing (god, how long ago?), there was no reason for Chargen Rooms. None. At all. Ever. (This is not 100% true, but let's call it 98% true.) We did it this way because we've always done it this way.

Continuing the last question: Python is in fact BETTER than MUSHcode for this

This we can agree on.

@Glitch Of Solace?

@Griatch said:

Evennia is actually its own webserver

I figured this would be the answer, as much as I was hoping it was true.

DOES IT EVEN JAVASCRIPT?!

I threw up a little in my mouth.

I bow to your superior everything, Master.

@acharles said:

Multidescers, tarot decks and anything requiring control flow are complex enough to require a non-trivial learning curve. Anyone willing to climb that hill probably has enough free time and interest to learn git and python.

That's like saying coding a blog in PHP has a non-trivial learning curve so you might as well learn Ruby-on-Rails and Apache installation.

Which is like saying, "Learning to swim is already non-trivial, so you might as well compete professionally."

Yeah, Charles, it's mainly you who I'm accusing of talking over the heads of your audience. The people you are reaching with this already agree with you. Which is to say, the choir is with you; the congregation is (handwaves) over there. Unless your point is telling people to "cope" and why they have to, in which case yeah, we get it.

@Griatch: Can Evennia be connected to via plain Telnet client, or is the Web client built-in to the install? I mean, can I troubleshoot on my Mac without having to turn on the web server? (Yeah yeah, I could check this out. I ask questions like this to remind myself to check as much as to expect an answer.)

@TNP said in Evennia - a Python-Based Mu* Server:

So the next question would be, can they import an nWoD cgen into their game from someone else's? And how easy would it be for them to write one from scratch (which, granted, is not easy for Mux code either or more people would do it).

Give me some time, already! I'll answer Griatch before he answers you more completely, but to put it in simple terms yes, you can pull someone else's library into your system.

Hm; is there a "requires" setup? I would like to write a more general framework that might not be packaged with every ThenoVennia library.

I like the term "un-trusted coder" for the kind of coding we're talking about/hashing back and forth concerning. Running user-instanced, in-trusted code.

@Griatch

You have been talking High Technology, but I don't think you have been much on the path of "just learn Python, duh". Among my reasons for my direct reply were asking the poster to pull those below him up with knowledge.

A multidescer in Mushland implies three things. One is a series of commands to store text by category and name (top.manshirt) locally to the current login object (character). The second is to intelligently display these options in legible, pretty output, again for that object's instance. The third is to apply any combination of same to @desc, with the same expectation that the command's enactor and the target are the identical.

Finally, all this without needing to ask permission from the person who controls the main code repository. It's your character object's code, with all the limitations and accesses that are reasonable for it to have.

This is hard to explain on a tablet, because I can't clean it up. Hopefully this clarifies a bit from your solution.

@acharles

Sure. Hold on while I go out, re-learn Python, understand Git, and then pour over the Evennia code structure and documents. And I'm one of the people more likely to do these things because I already have a background in coding. Many of the people responding here don't, while many do. It's a grab-bag.

Someone could answer with, "It can already do that. Look here: <link>", and render the complaints moot and turn it back into a discussion. That person is not yet me.

(implication/translation: turning information gathering into concrete project goals is not up to the end-user.)
(another implication/translation: educate these poor people to get them excited in the project, don't blame them for not trying!)

My First World Problem:

New Corsair headset. Nicer than anything I've had before. Software to mess with the color pulses on the side of the headsets. Cool.

Update box pops up. Has a link to the download page for this instead of downloading the update itself. Well ... okay.

Download link goes to generic "downloads" page, not the one for this program. O...kay?

Installer program does not know that it's already installed, so does not offer to install new version in the same place as the older version.

This is a high-end game-machine peripheral company what now? Is this the 90s? Geeze.

@Chime said:

...Geez I sound like the Free Council now.

Say that with pride, woman!

@acharles said:

I find it interesting that this thread lacks people describing their experience with using Evennia to do exactly the things people are suggesting it can't do.

Counter-interesting: I find it interesting that the communication to the people who think it can't do it (really: want to make sure it can) has been addressed in one post that talks technology above their head, and a second post that starts "I find it interesting" and implying that these people be the ones to prove the absence of something.

I don't think it's up to the Evennia devs to hand-hold people through new concepts, but I do think we could to better than this. Otherwise, I'm chalking it down to people in Camp A not really understanding people in Camp B, and people in Camp B lacking the training to understand people in Camp A.

Or in other words:

@Thenomain said:

Hobbyists vs. Professionals, FIGHT.

We have much in common with glacier watchers.

Hey, all I had when I started was @trigger, @listen, @if, and a handful of functions. I think the goal of softcode, in my mind, is not to expand the kind of game it is right now, but to extend the server into the game interface itself.

I could be wrong, tho, because everyone has their own way of describing all this madness.

edit Uphill in the snow, both ways!

@Volund said:

What exactly is a 'mainstream' MU* server anyways?

One I see everywhere. If you play WoD Mu*s, it's TinyMUX. Really, of Mux, Mush, and Rhost, Mux is the popular. Penn is pretty solid, too.

I think what TGT's complaint is one I've run into in the past many times: I know how to play Game X. I log into similar Game Y and man oh fucking man what the hell is going on here? Never mind!

@Griatch

The irony may be more of an inside joke, since the tired dead-horse-beating here about MUSHlikes is that they are using an ancient, out-dated transport mode.

As a long-time sufferer of this complaint (I have no problem with telnet; it is what it is and is used for a shit-ton of stuff still), it tickled me. In that context, it's ironic.

@Groth said:

The problem here is that we're trying to pretend as if 'simple' has a single definition.

Then this discussion about how @dig is already as simple as it can be is conceded as "stupid", and we move on.

Well, @Griatch, we are Mushers. I tried to explain that what you're reading is coming from a Musher perspective. I'm not sure what there is to understand; if the server's code structure allows for in-game coding in a safe manner, then there's nothing to worry about If not, then we're a bunch of Mushers being asked why we don't Mud.

Okay, not quite that hyperbolic, but hopefully that gets some more of the point across.