Posts made by Thenomain

@insomniac7809:

It helps if you learn to translate Customer, and learn how to speak Anti-Salesman.

Speaking Salesman is like talking to a normal person, but that person expects you to do or say anything to convince them to do something they don't want to do.

Anti-Salesman is a way of speaking that counteracts this. My managers didn't care for it, but it worked for me. "Hey, s'up? What brings you in. Shoes? Well we have a lot of those. Which shoes?"

It also helps how to filter Customer back into a language that isn't one spoken by someone who expects you to do or say anything to convince them to do something they don't want to do.

"No questions." -> "I have a ton of questions."
"I don't want that." -> "Thanks for the recommendation but I have something else in mind."
"I have a quick question." -> "I am about to waste your time for half an hour."
"I have a stupid question." -> "I thought about this already and I'm stuck; please help."
"Just looking." -> "Keep an eye on me, because I could have a ton of questions I'm just not ready for them yet. I could also be just looking."

If I can make the suggestion, here's what worked for me as a follow-up:

Customer: Do you carry BearClaws?
Me: No, but we do have shearling footwear by <brand>, it has <brand feature> and we're running a sale--I can grab you a size to try."
Customer: "No, I was looking for BearClaws."

You: "What about BearClaws were you looking for?"
Customer: "I can't find anything else that fits my foot as well."
You: (knowing about BearClaws) Is it the arches?
Customer: Yeah, <rambling story about how when they were a kid they were frightened by a McDonald's and therefore his feet lost their Golden Arches>
You: Huh! Well maybe try these MonsterFeet boots on for size. They've got great arches for some people.

And if it doesn't work for them, then at least they tried.

This assumes you're on commission. If you're not on commission, it's super-busy, or you just don't want to deal with this person, then skip the advice. Making five-minute friends in a retail environment is not impossible. As a light introvert, it's I think it's kind of fun.

@ganymede said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

@thenomain said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

Staff also don't always take a moment to consider whether or not an outcome should happen.

I was not clear before, but I, more often that not, consider staff to be players.

If I can change your mind on a topic, then I feel like I am not completely bad at logic.

(To others: Gany and I have been going back and forth on this for maybe a decade.)

@faraday

I personally agree that if this is all MSSP can do then it should be ditched, but this is a server-level discussion that I should not be part of. I just fear the ol' XKCD "14 Competing Standards" issue. If what MSSP does could be folded into what some JSON report could do, then A+. Flexibility so that in 20 years when people say that Mu*s are dying we can expand it.

@faraday said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

@thenomain said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

Out of technical ignorance I ask: Why not MSSP?

• It's highly MUD-specific (number of rooms? PK-allowed? Classes? Races? Yeaaaah... not so useful for most MUSHes).

Isn't this what @sparks is proposing, tho? Something that is specific to Evennia and Ares? Or are we thinking about something that is more akin to UNIX finger or whois, which may have some required fields but any number of user-defined fields for what they think is important?

@surreality said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

@Thenomain There's the 'the system allows it, so you have to!' argument some people try to make.

Make a macro with the page number for the rule of that RPG that says:

If a rule doesn't make sense/doesn't serve the story/you don't want to use it, don't use it.

May I suggest a command: +nerd <player name>=ruleslawyer

@sparks

But what about systems that don't use this? MUDs, for instance? Are you looking for a system that will automate game info as much as possible, but give people the ability to register manually?

What I find surprising that's (maybe?) missing from MSSP is detailed game information: What it's about, advertisement info, whatnot. I find this surprising because the game itself would be the only verifiable source of that information.

Alright, clearly I need to keep assuming that nerds will nitpick at every damn thing said. Thanks to @Surreality who took a more holistic approach to what I said, and was the only one to get it right.

Not that you two uber-nerds aren't technically correct, but when is "people will tell staff all the time" going to move the conversation forward.

Did I mention in another thread wanting to set this hobby on fire? This is not a small part of why. Double points to @mietze for both being technically correct and pointing out a known issue, though.

I mean, it's not like staff ever picks on players for things that aren't posted. That staff goes off on players without seeking clarification first.

And that's a huge problem about defining the limits of IC/OOC Responsibility. Game culture comes from the top, and if the top is dealing with things that distract them from running the game then how can we expect them to even want to engage with the game?

But they must engage with the game. Even psuedo-staff like faction heads must engage with the game, even if they acting on a purely OOC administrative standpoint.

All people on a game, whether or not it's staff or players or administrators or storytellers, have a responsibility to the game as designed and directed by the head staffers. (Theno's Hill to Die On #2. #1 is, by the way, the right to Fade to Black.)

I can't think of a popular themed game I've ever tried that didn't have a PHB involved, someone who is insane, but it works because they are insane about the game. The passion goes beyond the reasonable, but it's acceptable because their passion carries through to the game, even if they are also trolls or engage in cronyism.

Anyhow.

Everyone has a responsibility to the game. If they seem to be filling those responsibilities within a reasonable expectation of their position, everything is good. If not, then that's when the responsibility delegates up until it reaches headstaff. And if headstaff can't at least try to be responsible, then I don't see how they can ask anyone else to be.

@sparks

MUML?

Out of technical ignorance I ask: Why not MSSP?

Grilled cheese and tomato soup.

Shit, I'm going out to do this right now.

@ganymede said in The limits of IC/OOC responsibility:

The line is blurred between these uses because players don't always take a moment to consider whether or not an outcome should happen.

Staff also don't always take a moment to consider whether or not an outcome should happen. The problem with this is who is going to tell staff that they are wrong?

All the mac & cheese.

All of it.

@bobgoblin said in Hobby-related Resolutions/Goals for the coming year... ?:

To note, The Expanse did start off as a table top game. Likelihood of getting approval: High.

I put nothing to chance in a world with Steve Jackson in it.

@auspice said in Hobby-related Resolutions/Goals for the coming year... ?:

(I wonder if I could make puppy eyes at the people I know at Green Ronin to be able to get playtest copies of that...........)

Green Ronin is very anti-piracy, I know that; there was a very long time where they refused to sell anything as a PDF. How do they feel about Mu*s?

@miss-demeanor said in I DON'T WANT TO DATE YOU:

@mietze If you start to turn green or fuzzy all over, you have expired.

Or we're finally entering the Sixth World.

@faraday said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

@thenomain said in A directory of MU*'s that's actually good:

Why do we do this to ourselves, Faraday? Why?

Clinical insanity?

You may be right.

@faraday

You know, I've been meaning to talk to you or @Chime for the last hour about what would be involved in doing something like this.

But then I remember that I hate this hobby and want to push it off a cliff.

Then I get distracted in coding something else for this hobby.

Why do we do this to ourselves, Faraday? Why?

All (* I think) modern Mushlikes have some info available from the login page via the INFO command. I still don't know why we care how many dbrefs have been used, but there you go.

I resolve to learn f'ing Python and/or Ruby and start a project in Evennia and/or Ares, even knowing that nobody will ever see and/or care. It will only broaden my horizons, and I don't need 24/7 validation.

Project list possibilities:

• FATE Core
• Theno's Evennia Muxification. (Yes I know others have done it, but I over-do things.)
• Maybe some variation on an existing RPG that would be more fitting for Mu*s, but not being a game designer I don't have any design goals for that.

Will take other recommendations.

@magee101

I think the tripping point of people who use the phrase "ICA=ICC" is that they very often ignore that "ICC" comes from people with a far broader understanding of the game world than the character. They have understanding of interactions that never ground in the game, but still affect the game.

Nearly every game I've seen lately has an "ICA=ICC" rule, but what they mean by it is explained in the basic behavioral rules file and almost never named anymore.

Unlike "OOC Masq", tho, this particular meme keeps trying to rise from the grave. I haven't found the magic combination of words to keep it dead.

Now obviously there is some grey area here but every game I have ever played on has a policy system that details to you as a player what is acceptable OOC behaviour, and what IC actions are forbidden for what ever reasons.

These are game rules. These are what we should have. No rape scenes even FTB ones? Okay. No prostitution? Fine. Games are games because they have rules. Without rules, we have Cops & Robbers. ("Bang, you're dead."/"No I'm not!")

What is fantastic is a set of rules for what happens when game rules are broken. Even rough ones—expectations—that start painting a picture, just enough to get people on the same page is fine. (I would like one that reads "staff will never ridicule a player on a public channel" myself, but I've lost that argument since 2001. I mean, how do you punish a volunteer short of firing them?)

I don't think IC/OOC responsibility is a set thing. I think there are checks and balances, and that people with OOC responsibility should provide evidence that they will check themselves, from Headstaff down to Chief Dog Catcher.

@aria

During one of the elections (the second Dubya one, I think), a British news anchor was at a Republican rally talking to them about their economic beliefs, and used "how did your afford that motorized wheelchair?" as a follow-up question. He was kind and polite about it, and only about half the people they chose to show in this segment were angry at his pointing out the cognitive dissonance.

So yeah, you're absolutely right. I should have picked a much better nerd honey trap. Like this one:

@mietze said in Um...What?:

@thenomain
At least it’s not called “Well, Actually...”

Like there's a difference between "Um, Actually" and "Well, Actually", you great pedantic nerd. Sheesh!