Posts made by TimmyZ

@Lotherio which is done, Silvertree has a program to restart known games on the server. Hardly down for long, usually done for a minute or three and back up.

@EMDA Five Kingdoms - Fifth Kingdom (a Fifth is an Irish province with a High King) would be glad to have you if you're interested. While more popular during US Day/Euro Evening, we'll be looking to expand on this soon into US evenings. We're HIgh Arthurian in focus; high gothic theme in 6th Century setting, works such as Mallory the cannon versus any actual historical time points. Best viewed as an alternate history, but if you like ~15th century Arthurian tales, that's the canon.

It takes place after the fall of Camelot when the Isle of Britain returns to chaos and numerous Kings. In this chaos, Ronain, a son of Tristan and Isolde has returned to Ireland to reclaim the birthright of Isolde, Princess and daughter of Morholt (was to marry King Marc but fell in love with Tristan, Morholt and Tristan pretty much off each other like most of the love stories of high Arthurian tales).

With some knights of Camelot he's restored the Fifth of Meath, which is now the Fifth of Kidare (taken from Talesins's Kadeir Teyrnon - welsh for Chair of the Prince, Kadeir duel meaning chair or stone base (mountain)). The group mostly plays members of the court of Ronain, but we're expanding to build up the houses now which may lead into house politics. Of the other primary Fifths, Connact and Leinster have agreed to at least some form of truce to let Kidare establish itself, but Kidare is embroiled in raids and border skirmishes with Ulster at present. Munster had been relatively silent, but embassy both ways shows interest in some form of pact to allow Kidare to focus on Ulster, but the players are discovering their may be more to this as the plot unfolds.

We're finishing up a tourney now that has involved some revelations, mystery knights, and meetings between Brehons of Munster and Ulster (brehon is a bard/poet that keeps the laws - Ireland follows oral traditions, bards are integral to society).

I can vouch Kushiels is fun as well, I just like Athurian Legend and Arx seems pretty popular right now. I don't know the other two referenced by @emda, alas.

Just an update.

Things are slowly growing. This is good from my end, slow growth means more attention to the players coming in on my end.

The most common time for things to happen here is not the typical EST Evening (PST Late afternoon into evening). Euro Evenings and daytime US seems to be the best times here.

I know those of us in this time usually have a hard time and carve our own way, making our own plots, but here, this is one of our more active times. If this is your common connect times and the theme interests you, we would be glad to welcome you. After the stateside holiday here today, should pick back up again tomorrow.

@krmbm said in Fifth Kingdom:

Could you please fix your wiki so the pages don't change transparency when you hover over them?

Done and done. Might not have been the most friendly on phone or tablet. Was: poke screen once for hover to solidify, all fully opaque now.

@Arkandel I actually agree with what you said. It was the other thread that brought up the age and young child prodigy as unrealistic. If age altering stats actually did come into play, I don't know how long if play such a game either.

@Ganymede said in FS3:

Edited to add: regarding Connor McDavid, amassing the most points does not make you the best player on a hockey team.

I'll address the most important topic you brought up

The seasonal points may not be the best measure. But his coaches praise helps get an understanding of where the kids hockey sense is, when the go into review footage with him, he's usually a few steps ahead before they can tell him what needs improvement.

I'd further go with getting the C on his jersey; half the time it seems an honor roll, or good leader half as much off the ice.

There is a lot more to it, maybe he's not yet a top 5, but close. Though young kid with high skills stands, negating the age arguement I think.

And I love FS3 too, not for everyone. Just that seems to always come up in advertisement threads, quick responses of dislike, the age thing got me wanting to point out skill levels weren't necessarily limited by age.

@Arkandel said in Fifth Kingdom:

@TimmyZ said in Fifth Kingdom:

No one plays a pirate to have halitosis and die of liver malfunction at the age of 32.

Well, there goes my fucking concept.

There goes my hypothesis that no one likes it.

@kitteh said in Fifth Kingdom:

I'm looking at apping!

Fwiw, I'm pretty sure all L&L MUs are garbage when it comes to historical accuracy, realism, etc, so I don't really see a reason to criticize inauthentic Ireland over inauthentic England, magical Angel Sex France, or anything else.

This, yes. It's inauthentic, but a stretch to not even vaguely authentic. The one hand it has a few loosely inspired ideas, the latter just brings the idea of two green suited leprechuans on shetland ponies saying "ach johny me lad let's us joust now then shall we".

No one plays a pirate to have halitosis and die of liver malfunction at the age of 32. Just care was taking to avoid gross misrepresentation.

@Packrat said in Fifth Kingdom:

I have to admit that my first thought after looking through the website was along the lines of:

'Ohh god, not vaguely medieval Irish, this is going to be insufferable'. It is going to attract the worst typed accents, weird hagiographic interpretations of inherent Irishness, etc.

This hasn't sat with me quite right and is misleading. Namely the /not vaguely medieval irish/ portion. This statement alone paints the very image you speak of into everyone's minds; it has nothing to do with irish history and its a game of pretend fun with knights with shamrocks on their shields, who speak in poor dialect and all live in Castle Blarney. And, namely, because care was given to incorporate Irish elements without dominating in history to bore the typical player that doesn't want to read actual Irish history. And this very topic is addressed on the wiki.

My stance: Take King Arthur, the 2004 film, where Arthur and the knights are Slavic horsement. My Arthurian since is 'no, no, not even good from literature standpoint'. I see where they got it, Hengst and Horsa and props to Hussaria. My Polish heritage is upset cause it could of shown Poland in a good light. Its none of these things, yet I enjoyed this film. if it led people to find more interest to learn of the many elements borrowed to make this what was the better. If anyone actually did study some Slavic history, even more better.

Fifth Kingdom is not shamrock knights and blarney stones, we discourage dialect.

What Irish are we:

Namely we are provinces (fifth) with a different 'nobility' than most typical fantasy, L&L and historical games address.

The Clan system is the most important thing in play, most warfar will be Clan>Clan, involving raids, there may be some chance for Clan to Clan even within the same province we focus on.

We have established a terminology page to give correct historical perspective and explain where we are different. And yes, Knights are not Irish. And no, we do not involve glassgallows (derivded from the arrival of more Scottish.

Berhon law is important in the game, while we acknowledge writing, the idea of the berhon and the fili remain important to society. For those unfamiliar with brehon law, its close to modern law, it is in part the past precedence by other cases and rulings, preserved by the berhon, a class of legal, oral tradition, poets.

We have used terminology page to give some context and hopefully inspire folks to look at actual history of Ireland from both time points (6th and 16th centuries, both radically different and interesting, and at the heart, basically a war amongst provinces and clans that just continues)

From a larger standpoint at this actual time in history, we're looking at the convergence of religions versus the 'canon' history of St. Patrick showing up and everyone is just suddenly Christian too.

So while the game is not an Irish historical recreation and like the French authors throw in high gothic elements of France into 4th and 5th century Engand, the game is a fusion. But care has been given to include Irish elemnts, which are part of what make it unique compared to just another tale of knights.

@magee101 said in FS3:

@TimmyZ said in FS3:

Sorry @faraday , just ads for FS3 games always get derailed by rules discussion.

This is to move discussions here.

In the Fifth Kingdon thread age was brought up.

No one like young prodigy. But let's look at this. Hockey, best player right now is Connor McDavid. Turned 20 in January, only player to score 100 points this season.

Every Olympic athlete, is younger.

There have been studies on this. Some coorelation to age and youth having that belief they just can, and that diminishes as we age.

I believe the grizzled vet being physically superior is more a trope than an actuality.

Realistically one would see a decline as age progresses. More systems used to have this ... Physical goes down, mental goes up.

I think the young prodigy argument is overrated though.

Its pretty common that the grizzled old vet doesn't win because he's faster or stronger, it's because he knows a few tricks he's picked up over the years. He outthinks and outexperiences the younger guy. That's pretty common student/mentor trope thing. Old guy knows everything you do about how to use his muscles, but he also knows a couple other things you haven't even thought of yet that lets him win the fight, liek certain leverage positions in close combat or things like that.

Young prodigies are generally best in the mental aspects, I like them but generally the character's personality has to be as mature as the amount of knowledge they supposedly have. I really like Dresden File's Archive as an example of a child prodigy. Intelligent, young, mature, but there are these little moments of childhood that peek through. Generally what I've found of 'child prodigy' on text-based games are lil assholes that stir up drama and no one can do anything cause they're OMG GODLIKE

I still find myself in disagreement. Looking at contemporary sports again, same top hocky player Connor McDavid.

He understands the change of play new ticks and does things unheard of. He outthinks the grizzled veteran defensemen.

The captain tends to be the middle aged player. 30 something, after 30, its typical to assume a pro athlete is on the way down, to inevitable retirement. Some stay on to teach the younger ones, instill team play, teach field awareness. Connor McDavid is one of the youngest captains to date and he is teaching the more 'experienced players' these concepts on a new level of metagame (tricks and field awareness).

The 'veteran' in the military is a leader, not the soldier doing the physical activity as physical acuity is lowering with age. If one isn't promoted to a position of leadership versus being the physical doer, they're usually shown the door (not enough merit to justify a higher position relative to their age).

I agree, grizzled vet is a trope, it is not reality. I don't think the older play has to be pro swordsmen and younger player is unheard of as having a high physical skill holds water realistically.

Edit; As a trope, yeah I like to see grizzled, intelligent vet take down young inexperienced rookie. I'm old enough to appreciate the appeal of this in my 40s, but realistically I know it isn't true. I don't think its a good argument against a system that allows 'new' player to have a potential to have veteran level stats.

@ThatGuyThere I like that.

Fifth Kingdom is magic rare, middle scale on tipping scales when it shows up. Its just not a player option. It is /not/ a story device or a railroading tool for staff to control anything. It may be beneficial, it may be something to defeat, or just an enhancement to rp.

@Seraphim73 said in FS3:

This is something that I think sometimes doesn't get emphasized enough, and sometimes gets emphasized too much. I think it bears repeating that FS3 is NOT designed for PvP games, because a lot of people forget that when they're looking at the "unbalance" in chargen versus XP or whatever else might be bugging them at the moment. I'm guilty of that myself. And there's enough randomness in 2.0 that a dice pool of 14 isn't that much better than a dice pool of 11 (lowering the target number for successes made results a little more predictable, but as recent events on BSU showed, not all that more predictable).

And luck, at least on FS3.1 and .2, haven't read enough .3. It's less stats and more going out and rping. That+5 dice to the pool equalizes any 'big' bonus a min maxer might perceive. I've seen the maximizer go out and actively rp too, but they seem to understand the PvE aspect and are comfortable coming up with suitable PrP material too.

It's a system for an rp environment, less a game to see who is best. If everyone enjoys themselves, all is well.

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in FS3:

My own experience with FS3 is that it's fairly forgiving of low skill levels in +combat (and that high skill levels tend not to be overwhelming - friends have whined at me because their 10s in version 2.0 didn't beat 6/7/8s all the time on opposed rolls. I was not a sympathetic audience for this whining).

This and what @faraday said, FS3 is designed as PvE.

The dice pool difference is rarely enough to make a huge difference in results. And everyone is measuring between characters. If two to four stats are the only focus, as is even being measured, its not the system fault at all but more the implementation.

Having 3 to 4 in a stat plus ruling attribute is enough to contribute to most scenes, even if someone with an 8 shine more.

If after approval, the first player with high stats, can focus on catching up, then their not being challenged in more than one area. Most people start filling in bg skills that are cheaper after they see how they can be utilized for bg during normal rp. In my experience at least.

@Seamus said in Fifth Kingdom:

No magic...

I know, know, a lot of folks enjoy magic.

I just happen to be the inverse. If magic is openly available in a system, it sort of looses that special quality, less an enhancement to a theme and becomes just an everyday thing.

I'm the one, when everyone points to Lord of the Rings as an example of 'low-magic' I blink. My mind races with everyone had a magic sword by the end, half of them found in random holes they fell into by accident, and the elves walks and magic just seeps from them. I get it, the mundane folks, 99% of the world, doesn't do anything with magic.

We also really want to focus on characters and development, the struggle of character; the same things the high gothic knights struggled with. Turmoil and conflict of wants, needs, and their sense of right or justice even. Magic as a potential solution seems to be sidestepping this focus along some (not most or all) boundaries.

@Runescryer said in FS3:

@faraday Okay. I've been in like 3 or 4 FS3 games before, and I can't remember any of them spitting out the numbers before. Thanks.

The latest version of FS3 (2) spits out numbers. But the dice have always been explained in the documents. I think most places that used FS3 didn't indicate these were available at the website and via github.

Shadowrun or WoD, between with d8, each for at 6 or higher is one success.

@Packrat said in FS3:

If deliberately (and very strongly) encouraging specialized characters without any skills outside of their focus areas is the goal then the FS3 character generation/advancement system certainly works but the issue is that in most cases? People are not in fact aiming for that when it comes to making their MUSH, or fail to realize that this is a goal of the system they are using because it is nicely coded.

It's not encouraging either way. Because someone with a more mathematically aligned perspective sees this, get big silks now, slowly round out others as needed, it doesn't mean that is encouraged or intended.

My experience: take advantage of min maxing, be tough from the get go, others get tired of it and go play with other people.

Deliberately encouraging or forcing specialist approach isn't necessarily by design. Plenty of systems do this. I have no problem with them. It just seems there is a mindset to single out FS3.

Honestly the weeks one spends getting politics or hunting could well be the weeks of time lost not rping with the right individuals, no matter how stacked the dice or build is.

@Packrat said:

With 1xp a week, lets compare two people who are not that extreme. The first person takes (Skill) at 8 and (Skill2) at 8, the second person takes (Skill) at 8, (Skill2) at 4 then (Skill3) at 2 and (Skill4) at 2.

It would take the second person 5+6+7+8 or twenty four weeks to raise (Skill2) to 8.

It would take the first person 1+2 plus 1+2 or six weeks to raise (Skill3) and (Skill4) to two each and catch up on the 'well rounded' skills of the second person.

This is something i wanted to look at. It's only looking at how fast to catch up.

I wanted a common goal, all four stats at master level (10).

This takes first player 146 weeks, the second 160 weeks. Four less weeks than the catch up math, 14 weeks difference.

But honestly that may takes years to get to an end build.

Also for putting in a warning that the system can be min/maxed is kind of silly. No game system does this, I'm not sure why FS3 would.

Sorry @faraday , just ads for FS3 games always get derailed by rules discussion.

This is to move discussions here.

In the Fifth Kingdon thread age was brought up.

No one like young prodigy. But let's look at this. Hockey, best player right now is Connor McDavid. Turned 20 in January, only player to score 100 points this season.

Every Olympic athlete, is younger.

There have been studies on this. Some coorelation to age and youth having that belief they just can, and that diminishes as we age.

I believe the grizzled vet being physically superior is more a trope than an actuality.

Realistically one would see a decline as age progresses. More systems used to have this ... Physical goes down, mental goes up.

I think the young prodigy argument is overrated though.

@Packrat

I'd be happy to ponder FS3 in mildly constructive.

I'm fine with the abstraction (starting is set point limit, not defined by age), my interest is getting players into doing what they want. It can be min maxed, most systems can (even I partake, choose my WoD focus and snag a few high dots, round out with lower because it's cheaper in the long run). It's not gritty realistic, it's action oriented.

If both players app in and stay around for 6+ weeks, I'll be happy even if one went well rounded and the other min maxed.

@faraday said in Fifth Kingdom:

The design of FS3 expects you to combat this with a soft app review (e.g. "no, sorry, there's no way your nobleman doesn't know how to ride or deal with politics - spend some points in those") and by setting minimal starting skills. For example, on BSGU everyone has to start with a set of skills to represent basic military training, plus some background skills. As long as you meet those minimums, you can min/max yourself to your heart's content.

This, yes. Our focus is a kings court and players taking positions of importance. Most chars should have some thought given to being in said court. They have the position, their skills should reflect this.

End of the day if a player hardwires for combat, and the adventure of the week is dealing with the plague. Your just out of luck with no skill to help.

Secondary we're looking at it as PvE. Group effort, when it comes to needing a tank, the non combatant types will appreciate the min/max overload.

Action skills will all be relevant to play on a regular basis. Limiting to 3 to 4 at a high level would sell the character short on versatility more than anything else. If they want to sit in the tavern to wait for the next combat to shine, that's the choice they made.