What locations do you want to RP in?

[Meg]

Ideally, I'd like to have both. I absolutely dislike RPing in a desc where I can't tell what is physically there at most times. I would rather that, to be honest, than eschew it just for hooks and other things. Hooks and mysteries and atmosphere is a definite bonus, and will make me more likely to RP in a room that already has a good foundation desc.

[Arkandel]

@Meg All I expect/want from the set description is a consistent environment. That's it.

Are there booths or just tables? Just seats at the bar? Is there a jukebox?

But no one reads those damn things. I remember when it was revealed to me there was no fountain in Xanadu on Shang, even though people have been posing it being there for years.

[Meg]

@Arkandel I read them! I do!

I also read logs where people totally ignore my descs that I have written to pose things that aren't accurate and-- I feel so disrespected, you have no idea.

I find not reading descs as lazy as not reading other people's poses. Happens to all of us sometimes, but man. At least try, some of you.

[Lisse24]

So, this reminds me of one of my pet-peeves.

Place names need to say what the hell they are. Are they a bar? A book shop? A high-end restaurant? The Elysium? Put that info up front where it's easy to find. At the very least, public and private areas need to be readily distinguishable on +where.

Don't make me go reading a 10-paragraph desc full of obtuse verbs in an attempt to try and separate my waffle house from my laundromat.

[Rook]

@Lisse24
I agree with this. At least 'look <exit>' from the street should give ample indication of what type of place it is, and if a business looking to attract customers, it should be obvious what they sell.

[Pyrephox]

@Meg said in What locations do you want to RP in?:

Ideally, I'd like to have both. I absolutely dislike RPing in a desc where I can't tell what is physically there at most times. I would rather that, to be honest, than eschew it just for hooks and other things. Hooks and mysteries and atmosphere is a definite bonus, and will make me more likely to RP in a room that already has a good foundation desc.

Oh, absolutely. I don't think you have to give up one for the other - or should. My ideal desc is about two paragraphs - one paragraph with the tangibles, and one paragraph with relevant and interesting intangibles. Something like (off the top of my head, so not brilliant):

*Heidekker Park

This large, concave valley has been made into a popular metro park. Aside from the parking lots at the top, most of the park forms a gentle downward slope to a deep, circular pond in the depths of the valley. The main trail is paved with concrete, and takes a meandering, two-mile path down to a section of lake shoreline, where a fishing dock and concrete pavilion can be found. Other paths have been made over the years by parkgoers; these dirt trails wander through stands of pine and brush, often ending in small, secret clearings where one can find discarded beer cans, condoms, and other curious refuse often overlooked by the park's staff.

During the day, the park is a popular and well-patrolled place, often ringing with the shouts of children, and the excited quacking of ducks being fed down on the pond. At night, however, the park becomes home to an entirely different population; its many secluded areas make it a popular place for prostitution and the selling of contraband, and several of the city's gangs are constantly squabbling over the territory. Police response to reports of violence here after dark is curiously delayed, and there are rumors that the gangs pay off the local precinct to look the other way.*

There. Although that's not the greatest room in the world, it gives the opportunity for two distinct experiences (happy fun scenes in daylight, crime-related scenes at night), offers hooks (stumbling on some of that 'curious refuse' or onto a drug deal or gang dispute), gives people an opportunity to create plots (trying to root out the corruption in the local precinct, or trying to support one of the local gangs in claiming the territory for good), and has enough physical details that you can easily work distinctive details into the setting or playing of scenes.

[surreality]

People are weird about descs and just not reading them.

I am more or less insane when it comes to grid things. A grid build could easily take me a year putting in full time hours if I'm doing it 'right' to my way of thinking. I end up using season switches for elements of the descs, time of day, weather effects, hell, even a diner menu will actually have different 'specials' on the menu set to switch by the day of the week. Even if any given desc is short to read, it's going to be different on the regular, because it being different to account for the world differences is going to be built in.

It also means... this takes forever. Forever.

It makes me less inclined to add useless grid rooms. If all of the above is going into it, it is damned well going to have a story and hooks built into all of it, too, and it's going to be a place that's potentially useful and is a good resource for players as a location with story ideas built in, but not ones that are so overwhelming that the place is useless for anything else.

Edit: Oh, yeah, the point. I have been told multiple times that this is wasted effort because nobody reads room descs. Further, that it's unfair to put story seeds and hooks in the room descs because the people who can't be bothered to read the room desc might miss them.

[Rook]

@surreality
Fuck players who cannot bother to READ on a text-based game. Fuck them and all that they hold dear. I cannot count the number of people who misread, skim or outright skip character descriptions and end up posing stupid shit due to that ignorance. Room descs, when on grid, are even more of a crime against the game.

I have, and forever shall, OOCly laughed and made fun of people who cannot bother to fucking READ on a MU*. GTFO, seriously, go back to WOW or whatever made you think that you could roleplay.

[Pyrephox]

@surreality said in What locations do you want to RP in?:

People are weird about descs and just not reading them.

I am more or less insane when it comes to grid things. A grid build could easily take me a year putting in full time hours if I'm doing it 'right' to my way of thinking. I end up using season switches for elements of the descs, time of day, weather effects, hell, even a diner menu will actually have different 'specials' on the menu set to switch by the day of the week. Even if any given desc is short to read, it's going to be different on the regular, because it being different to account for the world differences is going to be built in.

It also means... this takes forever. Forever.

It makes me less inclined to add useless grid rooms. If all of the above is going into it, it is damned well going to have a story and hooks built into all of it, too, and it's going to be a place that's potentially useful and is a good resource for players as a location with story ideas built in, but not ones that are so overwhelming that the place is useless for anything else.

Edit: Oh, yeah, the point. I have been told multiple times that this is wasted effort because nobody reads room descs. Further, that it's unfair to put story seeds and hooks in the room descs because the people who can't be bothered to read the room desc might miss them.

Those people are terrible, and they should feel bad. (They are also one of my major pet peeves, along with people who read the descs, and then just flat out ignore them so that they can play the exact same way they play in every room or situation. For the love of happiness, do not take your businessman in the five thousand dollar suit to the fucking slums and act like he fits in. Even if he is a crime lord who isn't in personal danger, he does not /fit in/. I'm not saying 'oh god, never step out of your territory' by any means, but just that if you do, at least play the acknowledgement that you ARE. Your ragged commoner is not going to be welcome at the most hoity-toity establishment in the rich part of the city, and drinking there is NOT like drinking in a slum dive. Your fancy-pants, old money socialite is not going to get the same reception at the wrong-side-of-the-tracks honkey tonk that she gets at the elegant downtown club. )

[surreality]

@Rook No lie, when I hear the argument about how it's unfair to put hooks in room descs as being 'denying access to story seeds to people who can't be bothered to read room descs', I am reduced to gibbering in Even Cant at the galling entitlement it entails. They have the same access as anyone else, and it's exclusively by their choice that they aren't choosing to use it.

[Rook]

@surreality
That's as stupid as bitching that one was denied entry to college to "those who cannot bother to take entrance exams or get good grades in school".
...or as fucking ditzy as complaining of a company not hiring someone completely unqualified for a job as "discrimination based on lack of merit and/or qualifications".

Point me to the idiots who bitch that shit at you. I'd have no shame telling them to nuke their character and get the FUCK out, and to take their friends with em.

[surreality]

@Rook ...and this is yet one more reason that if I ever pick that project up again I really am going to poke.

Seriously. Someone else's egregious laziness is not and has never been my problem to solve.

[Jennkryst]

I will one-up you all: fuck staff on games who go 'No, your background is too long, make it shorter'... double-fuck them on a game where the +policy includes:

Illustrate things with the character's thoughts -- maybe not literally quoted, but his take on situations. Don't simply say, "He was happy"; instead, describe the tears of joy and relief that he shed upon seeing his comrades emerge alive. Don't say, "Her father abused her", show us a scene where it happened, or her having flashbacks, or show her after one of the attacks and how she felt. It takes a bit more space, but it results in a story that comes alive in the mind.

Emphasis mine.

... sorry for minor derail, but I'm still fucking bitter over that bullshit.

Shadowrun has a decent way of describing these sorts of things with Security ratings. How quick the police response will be, and so on. Maybe instead of ONLY including it in the description, a handy ranking system could be employed.

[Seraphim73]

@Pyrephox said in What locations do you want to RP in?:

*Heidekker Park

I'd say that it's a very nice, clear description, but in my mind, about twice as long as anyone will read. I might suggest putting hooks in views (or is that just making the problem worse because no one will ever read the views because people already don't read the descs right in front of them?).

Maybe something like?

From the parking lots at the top of this popular metro park, the land slopes gently downward to a deep, circular pond. There's a meandering two-mile concrete trail around the pond, leading to a small pavilion and a dock with paddle boats. Other paths are dirt trails worn through stands of pine and brush by generations of feet.
During the day, children play in well-patrolled safety, but at night sex, drugs, and other goods and services are sold in little clearings in the trees littered with empty beer cans, condoms, and other refuse.

Admittedly, it lost some of your detail (including the nice police corruption angle), but I also think that it's more likely to be read in its entirety.

Definitely a balancing act between including useful information and getting wordy enough that fewer and fewer people will read it. And not an easy one either.

[Pyrephox]

@Seraphim73 Honestly? If people aren't capable of or willing to read two short paragraphs one time, then I'm not overly interested in playing with them in general.

EDIT: Sorry, that was snarky. But more, if people aren't willing to read two short paragraphs fed to them right up front, they're /definitely/ not going to put in the extra work of putting in additional commands to read +views or +notes. You can't cater to people who simply aren't going to put any effort in.

[Rook]

It's ironic, then, that the measuring stick for "quality" on most games is the length of a pose. Or, maybe... it is the tell-tale sign of desc-skippers? Those that pose one or two lines get bored after reading one or two lines?

Fuck, who knows.

[Chet]

All the standard hangouts work, but you need flavor for the hangout. To reference famous hangouts, you have the Iceberg Lounge, Quark's bar on Deep Space Nine, the armory on Cairo Station, or even the barracks from Starship troopers. The Iceberg Lounge is for criminals to rub shoulders with socialites and business people, Quark's bar is a place for important space-faring functionaries to mingle with Federation officers, the armory on Cairo Station is where the soldiers hang out talking scuttlebutt, and the barracks is where the Mobile Infantry relaxes. You have to have a function or purpose in mind that ties into the game theme, rather than something easy like just having a convenience store. Unless it's the Circle K from Bill and Ted.

[Thenomain]

You know, I want a way for all the hangouts to auto-list on +hangouts, +where, +directory, and so on. These three commands are practically the same, anyhow, and small problems we've had in the past ("this is a secret hangout" or "this is my house please stop listing it") can be solved in a relatively simple way.

That we have not sat down, as a community, and worked out that way is just why we keep re-inventing the wheel.

[Chet]

@Thenomain Building Nexus. H&V had one, Shangrila has one. You just add in a bit of code that works for the wiz, when they approve and link the room, to add it to the proper listing, based on the class the player applies for. Make it automatic.

[Seraphim73]

@Pyrephox I don't actually disagree with you. I would love to put together long, flavorful room descriptions with deep hooks that drive RP on their own. I've just learned in marketing and game writing that people have fuck-all short attention spans, and the lower your barrier to entry the more likely they are to actually do what you want them to do.

I also agree with you that people who aren't going to read two solid paragraphs aren't going to read notes or views. I was more thinking that those who were actually interested in RP hooks might take the time to read them, while those who weren't might be more willing to read two short paragraphs instead of two longer ones and at least get the basics.