@kanye-qwest I bought all the diet stuff. I'm ready when you are. But can we jog at lunch? It's getting too cold for before work.
I mean it's still in the 80s here but ok. I got my fitbit and my foot surgery and everything.
@arkandel said in Make MSB great again!:
@misadventure said in Make MSB great again!:
A wiki to store the same old fight summaries, played by lists, MU* lists.
Who would write the summaries? Would it be objective? Does it work for late comers who might want to debate things others happen to have seen before?
A link off any advertisement to a thread where people can go wild. I'd like to be able to find both the ad content and updates with ease, and make it easy to find the discussion about the given ad poster or place.
Alright, how about this then: Please feel free to create offshoots of advertisement threads in the Constrictive and/or Hogpit sections, and I'll edit the original posts as needed to include those links so it's easy to jump back and forth. That way you can choose the level of content you want:
- The advertisement thread is just 101 'what is this game about' with rather basic information primarily aimed to hype a MU* up, which I'll frown at anyone being more than slightly critical of,
- The Constructive thread where suggestions are meant to be made, and where you can be as critical as you want as long as you attack ideas and not people,
- The Hogpit thread where the gloves can come off.
Does that work?
A reminder that phrasing things in the form of accusations, and not questions pretty much guarantees that your discussion is going no where.
Although that's possible, at some point it'll become condescending as fuck.
This is definitely a start. The advertisement threads turning into pile ons is not appealing, not for the people running the games that were advertised, and not for players looking for a game to play that want to hear from people who enjoy the game and have questions about the game answered.
MSB clearly loves the fun chemical rush of being nasty to other people, lobbing insults and comparisons and creating entire threads about individual people that they don't like. So I guess to keep some of the regulars happy you're gonna have to provide an outlet for this to happen. Something people who are completely uninterested in that can avoid as much as possible, like Hog Pit as it is structured now, would probably serve.
How to make MSB something that is actually cool and useful for large groups of people interested in MU* games, that might require a bigger shift in culture. What the 'community' (I kind of hate that word in reference to fellow MU* players because it is really not one community the way some on MSB refer to it) needs is not really more critiques of games, but more games. So discussions about how to make good games that last would be useful. Discussions about how to keep staffers engaged and supported would be useful. Anything that would help as many people as possible get a game going would be useful.
The critiques of games are not nearly as helpful as I think people want to believe. They are cathartic maybe, but not really providing a service.
@kanye-qwest lol
@sunnyj said in Make MSB great again!:
Have some easy-to-find, constantly-updated list of games.
Keep the Hogpit in the Hogpit
Keep the Advertisement Threads free of nasty bashing (although I do feel like players should be free to post in them things like "Had bad experiences with this game. Will explain in the Hogpit").
I don't think that there is any need for posting "I had a bad experience, will explain in Hog Pit" on an advertisement thread. People know how MSB works. They know that there will be a 99% chance that any game that exists will have a thread of people bitching and moaning about it. Having that shiz in advertisement threads is just demoralizing for the people working their asses off to make a game and/or play on one and love it.
The advertisement threads turning mean and nasty is one of the reasons I stopped using MSB much other than the chat aspect which is handy dandy. Not only because at one point a game I staffed had the advertisement thread turn nasty, because that was years ago and I'm over it. But seeing it happen again and again and again to other people was extremely frustrating and disheartening. It's unnecessary. People know where to go if they want to bitch. That seems abundantly clear.
@kanye-qwest said in Make MSB great again!:
And then she went on a multi post tirade about how some of us are shitty human beings! But I don't regret donating.
@ganymede said in Make MSB great again!:
@arkandel said in Make MSB great again!:
The 'MSB effect' in regards to damaging/killing games has come up before, and I hate it. The very idea that this forum is important 'because it can bring down a MUSH', whether right or wrong, is abominable. It's not what the place is about, or for. If our ability to damage games was the measure of its success I'd be looking to pass it on to someone else today since that's not something I want to invest any time into.
There is no "MSB Effect." Any claim thereof is simply untrue.
There are countless examples of games that have persisted despite the best efforts of MSB, WORA, or SWOFA to take them down. To suggest otherwise, in my opinion, is erroneous at best and flat-out false at worst.
This place is the only place I'm aware of that serves as a media outlet. People promote, complain, and defame in equal measure. While it would be nice if people stick to known facts and honest opinions, that as a policy cannot be reasonably enforced without censorship.
This place is fine. Its members may not be, but this place is fine.
You know, except for the changes we're recommending here.
The 'MSB effect' is not an effect on games. As you have stated and as is true, plenty of games keep going strong despite not being popular on MSB. The 'MSB effect' is on PEOPLE not games. It is damaging because not all game runners are intensely resilient and sometimes when a person is called useless and pointless or jokes are made about whether they are seeing a shrink, they are hurt, insulted, and no longer interested in running a game or dealing with anything MU* related ever again...or for a few months at least. If people posting on MSB were slightly less vitriolic it would be better for everyone. This isn't @Arkandel's job to enforce, its on 'the community'. But pretending that some of this doesn't effect games negatively is just pretending.
Except that you can’t rely on a community to change just because. It can happen, and it’s beautiful when it does, but without someone with a whistle sitting in the high chair by the pool, it’s just Lord of the Flies.
c.f. Right Here, Right Now.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
@thenomain said in Make MSB great again!:
Except that you can’t rely on a community to change just because. It can happen, and it’s beautiful when it does, but without someone with a whistle sitting in the high chair by the pool, it’s just Lord of the Flies.
c.f. Right Here, Right Now.
PIGGY HAS THE CONCH
But no, you're right. I don't actually expect anything to change.
I want a merc board, where people can show interest in being recruited for work at games, instead of having to wait for someone to start up a project.
@wizz said in Make MSB great again!:
@wtfe said in Make MSB great again!:
There was maybe once a small window in which a site could have been built that was WORA for adults. That ship has long since sailed
If that genuinely turns out to be the consensus and the majority here feels like they are not obligated to ever change and grow up...LOL, good luck with that. It's been a trip MSB, but I'm too old for this shit.
We are ALL too old for this shit. I mean maybe a few college kids stumbled this way I don't know everyone's lives. But I would wager that most of us are wayyyy to old to behave the way we do here. I'm embarrassed for all of us, including myself.
@chet said in Make MSB great again!:
I want a merc board, where people can show interest in being recruited for work at games, instead of having to wait for someone to start up a project.
I'd say the MU Code board could prob. be used for that. Or maybe the Questions one. No need for a whole separate section.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
@auspice said in Make MSB great again!:
@chet said in Make MSB great again!:
I want a merc board, where people can show interest in being recruited for work at games, instead of having to wait for someone to start up a project.
I'd say the MU Code board could prob. be used for that. Or maybe the Questions one. No need for a whole separate section.
Shout in the Dark has been used for more than a "missed connections" board. "Looking for people to X" has been there too.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
@thenomain said in Make MSB great again!:
@auspice said in Make MSB great again!:
@chet said in Make MSB great again!:
I want a merc board, where people can show interest in being recruited for work at games, instead of having to wait for someone to start up a project.
I'd say the MU Code board could prob. be used for that. Or maybe the Questions one. No need for a whole separate section.
Shout in the Dark has been used for more than a "missed connections" board. "Looking for people to X" has been there too.
That would work, too! I suggested code/questions since a game runner might hit those up looking for advice to begin with, so it'd be a ready place for them to spot the 'resume.'
Ugh, I know that jogging makes you healthy but AT WHAT COST?
Because I'm not the slightest bit tired but should have been asleep two hours ago, I give you my breakdown of the boards, mostly by observation but partially by personal opinion:
Announcements: Staff announcements, at the top. This miffs me on Mu*s because there are usually over 100 posts there, most of them out of date. With a web format it's not so much of a big deal, and I haven't seen anyone here yell at someone else for not reading each and every one and commit it to memory.
Midly Consttuctive: The Mu*-Related Forum for Real Information. It's second on the list but first in our hearts, and if something is going to happen it's probably going to happen here or...
Hog Pit: I don't know where this is because I've unsubscribed. I imagine this is what people want the Advertising boards to be: A place for tell-all and no-holds-barred.
Adver-tis-ments: It was "Advert-is-ments", but a lot of browser-plugin adblockers were, well, blocking it. I think a lot of our problem here is that it's in neither Constructive nor Hog Pit, so there were no rules for it. What I've heard from people about what is allowed or not allowed there has been all over the spectrum (well, not that spec--actually, you know, including that spectrum). Nothing was not allowed therefore everything is allowed, as long as the Court of Public Opinion says it's okay on that particular day.
And this is where the comparisons between Soapbox and Wora are made. Wora was run almost 100% on Court of Public Opinion. Bans came for derailing threads to the point of pointlessness, but very little else.
Tastes Less Game'y: The RL board. While we can surely click talking about games, I've been with circles of friends who talk about nothing but the games, and it can be hollow. I think here is where the board community comes together. There's almost nothing here that's so emotional that people will even want to shit-post. There is one thing, but it gets its own board.
MU Code: 151 Topics? Really? I'm kind of impressed. Only one third of "Mildly Constructive", but that's still pretty neat.
MU Questions & Requests: Kind of self-describing. I think people use this board when they don't want their thread to be lost in "Mildly Constructive".
How-Tos: Specifically for tutorials on things that make our games good. Could go under "MU Code", perhaps, but it's a lot easier to find things when they're more broken down.
A Shout in the Dark: Quick requests for information, both missed connections and searching for. Again, not something that is meant to be a drawn-out discussion. I think its sub-header is misinformative to how it has been and could be used.
From here on, I'm not sure what the purpose of the boards are, but I'm going to give it a guess.
Suggestions & Questions: Soapbox-Specific Q&A. (Like this thread should be, perhaps.) I've seen many that could go here under "Mildly Constructive", but tomato, potato.
Readers: Our love of books knows many bounds.
Code: Code memes. Hi @Chime!
Play-by-Post: Except for the board that convinced @HelloRaptor to leave because of how nice we were all trying to be to one another, I don't think this board has ever been used for its stated purpose. (Hm, I wonder with recent events if I could get him to post again? I bet not, but it's tempting to offer.)
Politics: The RL version of the Hog Pit for the one topic that will get people shit-posting on a moment's notice. Serves the same purpose as something I can put on ignore.
--
And that's my time-wasting babble for tonight. I did think it was a little topical, at least, to help diagram "just what is this board trying to do, anyway"? I think that people are here for four boards: Constructive, Hog Pit, Adverts, and RL. Everything else is either a nice touch or a...well, a touch, at least, of only slightly questionable purpose.
Sleep well, everyone. Unless you're just waking up, in which case "g'day, mate".
@auspice said in Make MSB great again!:
@wizz said in Make MSB great again!:
@arkandel
What do you mean by help? What are you asking for and what are your expectations?
What is your deal? Like, is this a snarky response? Are you being sincere?
^_______^
(@_____@)
---|---
/\
@wizz said in Make MSB great again!:
@auspice said in Make MSB great again!:
@wizz said in Make MSB great again!:
@arkandel
What do you mean by help? What are you asking for and what are your expectations?
What is your deal? Like, is this a snarky response? Are you being sincere?
No, literal response. I feel that's the main thing Arkandel is asking for people to help with.
But, take it as you will.
Saying the quiet parts out loud since 1996.
@auspice said in Make MSB great again!:
@chet said in Make MSB great again!:
I want a merc board, where people can show interest in being recruited for work at games, instead of having to wait for someone to start up a project.
I'd say the MU Code board could prob. be used for that. Or maybe the Questions one. No need for a whole separate section.
Shout in the Dark has been used for more than a "missed connections" board. "Looking for people to X" has been there too.
