Masquerade (oWoD)--yes, we are still open
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The description logic seems fine. That 10 is part of the list, not part of a statement "10 is a botch".
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No, but unless the mechanics are different, if you have more 1's than you do successes (10's, in this case), its a botched roll.
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In Revised and 20th Anniversary Edition, a botch is a roll where you get at least one '1' and no successes. Otherwise it is merely a failed check. So spending a willpower (automatic success) has the additional effect of ensuring that at worst you fail the die roll.
“Real magic can never be made by offering someone else's liver. You must tear out your own, and not expect to get it back.”
― Peter S. Beagle, The Last Unicorn -
I stand corrected!
Its been a loooooooooooong time since I've cracked the spine of an owod book. -
Back when I used to play face-to-face WoD tabletops, GMs tended not to believe me when I pointed that out, so don't feel bad.
The next great hurdle is making them understand that you're supposed to re-check your initiative in CWoD at the start of every turn.
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Roll like 10 dice at difficulty 10, see if any rolls that include 10s but also have more 1s than 10s, list as a botch. If 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 10 is a botch, the game is doing it wrong.
Emphasis mine. Either your example is wrong or your description of the botch rule is wrong. (More of a derp than a duh.)Not sure what you're on about. I read that a few times and I'm not seeing what I derp'd. Is Misadventure correct that you are the derp? Would it help if I'd put quote marks up such as:
If "1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 10" is a botch, the game is doing it wrong.
@The-Tree-of-Woe said:
In Revised and 20th Anniversary Edition, a botch is a roll where you get at least one '1' and no successes. Otherwise it is merely a failed check. So spending a willpower (automatic success) has the additional effect of ensuring that at worst you fail the die roll.
Yeah. Botching was supposed to be infrequent, but because of the way their dice pools interacted with a scaling difficulty, your odds of botching would increase at higher pools with higher difficulties compared to lower pools at higher difficulties. It was pretty amazingly stupid.
Even after games switched to Revised, it still took a ridiculously long time for a lot of staff to admit that they were still doing botches wrong.
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@HelloRaptor
Yeah, I'm still not getting it.if any rolls that include 10s but also have more 1s than 10s, list as a botch
This looks to me like an instruction. "If more 1s than 10s, then list as botch."
"1 1 1 10" has more 1s than 10s, so you say to list it as a botch.
Then you say it's wrong for it to be reported as a botch.
It can't be both.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
Did I just misuse a comma? It's like you're omitting words.
Here:
Roll like 10 dice at difficulty 10, see if any rolls that include 10s but also have more 1s than 10s, list as a botch.
As in roll some dice and see if any rolls turn up botches under those conditions.
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VERIFY(BTJE) Fortune rolls 10 dice [7 5 4 3 1 9 10 4 1 4] against 10 and gets
0 successes.One 10, two 1s, it's a fail, not a botch. Revised rule in effect.
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@Fortune
Cool, thanks for checking. It probably seems like a ridiculous thing to think might still be going on this long after Revised, but my experience with MU*ers suggests that when people are stuck on doing something wrong they'll cling to it like mad. See: TR, Spider, Troy, etc. -
Yeah, I have no insight into the code there--it was installed long before I came around. Masq has been around forever as you know. But, wanted to think (correctly as it turns out) that for the 2010 reboot, the +roll and some other stuff were updated to Revised.
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You really should check out v20. There are a few system tweaks that make the game much more enjoyable for anyone. I like it a lot more than Revised, especially for Vampire and Werewolf.
