San Francisco: Paris of the West

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 2:17 AM

@darc there is plenty of not broken fighting merits that make certain concepts valid (such as sword and board). Without the sword and shield fighting style a sword and bpard build is almost impossible to use.

Also are you just not using the merits or the whole of the books?

Rucket · May 28, 2018, 1:50 AM

@darc said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@lithium said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

My only concern (other than 1e broken combat merits, yes I am looking at you multi-action merits, and some other splat specific merits) is that XP Tiers always segregate RP.

Those who come in with big xp can just obliterate lower xp people. A lot of it is dependent on how pvp is handled and such but in general... not had a lot of good experience with xp tiers personally.

Will be giving this a chance eventually though.

That's an understandable concern with XP Tiers, and is something we're keeping a very close eye on in the early stages.

As for broken combat merits... we do not use Armory or Armory Reloaded on Paris of the West. No Fighting Styles are allowed.

Gunslinger isn't a fighting style and it's on your list of allowed merits and is pretty broken.

Lithium · May 28, 2018, 2:09 AM

@rucket That was one of them yeah.

Darc · May 28, 2018, 2:17 AM

@magee101 said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@darc there is plenty of not broken fighting merits that make certain concepts valid (such as sword and board). Without the sword and shield fighting style a sword and bpard build is almost impossible to use.

Also are you just not using the merits or the whole of the books?

The whole of the books.

Darc · May 28, 2018, 2:18 AM

@lithium .... And -this- is why we have an Alpha phase! Looks like a couple of merits that were marked Restricted ended up in my data dump. If you notice anything else that seems absolutely insane and an obvious mistake, feel free to toss in a +request in-game. Thanks!

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 3:01 AM

@darc said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@magee101 said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@darc there is plenty of not broken fighting merits that make certain concepts valid (such as sword and board). Without the sword and shield fighting style a sword and bpard build is almost impossible to use.

Also are you just not using the merits or the whole of the books?

The whole of the books.

How are we supposed to have gear then? I think I might have to step away from this game until there is some other decisions made.

Flitcraft · May 28, 2018, 3:10 AM

There's equipment in the core book. The system isn't so granular that you really need a new statline for Bowie Knife, Combat Knife, Keris, Kriss, Kukri, and Rondel Dagger. I find it kind of refreshing to play a game where I can just buy a knife and not worry about picking the best one.

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 3:25 AM

@flitcraft but there is other types of gear that is not covered in the core rulenook. A tabletop game is about options. No one said you had to take the best option amd I rarely take the 'best' i take the option that most fits this concept. If you remove my options why do I want to play?

Sunny · May 28, 2018, 3:27 AM

@magee101

Because WoD games are not about gear.

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 3:30 AM

@sunny I half disagree. Sure WoD games are not entirely about gear, but gear (material things and wantinf those things) is a core facet in a lot of concepts, storylines, and drama. Saying WoD is not about gear is like saying DnD is not about roleplay.

Flitcraft · May 28, 2018, 3:43 AM

I don't think having special stats for Lucerne hammers is a core facet of any stories I've ever seen in the nWoD.

Autumn · May 28, 2018, 3:54 AM

I have mixed feelings when it comes to equipment.

On the one hand, the core book is pretty sparse. I think you could make a reasonable argument that it's too sparse for some concepts that people actually want to play.

On the other hand, there's also such a thing as Too Much. Mostly, what the extensive equipment lists in Armory seem to do is make more work for staff and provide advantages for people who want to dumpster-dive through page after page of handgun minutiae (or whatever). A handful of items in any given category are quickly quantified as the best, and everything else in that category might as well be wasted space.

As long as staff is reasonably flexible I don't think a short equipment list is necessarily a problem. So there's no Lucerne Hammer on the equipment list; so what? Figure out what's closest to it that is on the list, run it by staff to make sure they think it's reasonable, and just call it a Lucerne Hammer when you get into a fight. I think most people will be fine with that as long as you don't try to start arguing that your Lucerne Hammer gives you 8-again even though the Great Ax stats say no such thing.

ThatOneDude · May 28, 2018, 6:39 AM

@autumn said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

I have mixed feelings when it comes to equipment.

On the one hand, the core book is pretty sparse. I think you could make a reasonable argument that it's too sparse for some concepts that people actually want to play.

On the other hand, there's also such a thing as Too Much. Mostly, what the extensive equipment lists in Armory seem to do is make more work for staff and provide advantages for people who want to dumpster-dive through page after page of handgun minutiae (or whatever). A handful of items in any given category are quickly quantified as the best, and everything else in that category might as well be wasted space.

As long as staff is reasonably flexible I don't think a short equipment list is necessarily a problem. So there's no Lucerne Hammer on the equipment list; so what? Figure out what's closest to it that is on the list, run it by staff to make sure they think it's reasonable, and just call it a Lucerne Hammer when you get into a fight. I think most people will be fine with that as long as you don't try to start arguing that your Lucerne Hammer gives you 8-again even though the Great Ax stats say no such thing.

I feel like you just explained how 2e/CofD does equipment... I'm not saying its a vastly superior rule set, but...

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 6:43 AM

@autumn thank you for better articulating the point I was trying to get across.

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 6:54 AM

@thatonedude can I make a request that people quit comparing 1e to 2e? We get it lots of people prefer 2e, thats fine. This is a 1e game, allow it to exist as a 1e game and just talk about the merits of the MU not the ruleset it is using. My arfuments are not bashing on the ruleset they are about the books that are not being used. Please just stop bashing 1e, some of us prefer it over 2e, and I am tired of reqding about people cluttering an ad about it.

ThatOneDude · May 28, 2018, 7:27 AM

@magee101 said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@thatonedude can I make a request that people quit comparing 1e to 2e? We get it lots of people prefer 2e, thats fine. This is a 1e game, allow it to exist as a 1e game and just talk about the merits of the MU not the ruleset it is using. My arfuments are not bashing on the ruleset they are about the books that are not being used. Please just stop bashing 1e, some of us prefer it over 2e, and I am tired of reqding about people cluttering an ad about it.

I feel like you just explained how 2e/CofD does equipment... I'm not saying its a vastly superior rule set, but...

I don't think the above is bashing...

magee101 · May 28, 2018, 7:50 AM

@thatonedude thats literally bashing it, just polietly. Just because you say something in a nice way does not change the point of your post. To submit your feelings that 2e is a better rule system than 1e

Eta: totes just stole that gif tho

Auspice · May 28, 2018, 12:17 PM

Hey guys, why not take the 1e vs 2e discussion to a new thread rather than clutter the ad?

Thanks.

ixokai · May 28, 2018, 1:47 PM

@magee101 said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@thatonedude can I make a request that people quit comparing 1e to 2e?

As an observer, what?

No I mean like, I'm gonna make a char on this game. Seven friends of mine are gonna join me in making a cabal.

I've read this thread?

And what? Folk are talking like there was some huge diversion and distraction on the 2e equipment method. There wasn't. Some guy just said a thing, made one little comment.

Relax.

God.

As for this ACTUAL GAME ITSELF, my feedback. The staff has a sense of humor and vision. The head mage wiz didn't let me have what I wanted and so he can burn in a -- no, actually, he said no in a reasonable way and left the door open down the road when what I wanted might be more appropriate in plotland.

The head Changeling wizard used her skills of testicle stabbing to make me consider making a 'ling alt, because ...well, let us gently say, despite violence to my junk that maybe was warranted because I was being a shit-disturber, still set there as I grilled her with question after question. Now yes, that's staff's job. But she does it with class. Okay, also a little deserved violence.

I might need to make a Sin-Eater too, largely because again, their SE wizard isn't an idiot. This might seem like a low bar but let me tell you its a challenge. I have been quoted international law by SE wizards defining 'torture'. This guy just expressed a reasonable POV and you know, listened and debated his point. I don't even know what to do with myself.

Rucket · May 28, 2018, 3:02 PM

@magee101 said in San Francisco: Paris of the West:

@sunny I half disagree. Sure WoD games are not entirely about gear, but gear (material things and wantinf those things) is a core facet in a lot of concepts, storylines, and drama. Saying WoD is not about gear is like saying DnD is not about roleplay.

There are plenty of options in the corebook which don't bring into account some of the dumb stuff Armory and Armory: Reloaded brought into the game. And let's be honest, if people got Staff to cave on adding a few equipment items from those books, then they'd start wanting more. And more.