The Basketball Thread

[Arkandel]

@ganymede said in The Basketball Thread:

They can't. That's one of the things people talk about, but they can't.

They also said Vegas wouldn't contend for the Stanley Cup.

After the fleecing the Kings got by the Celtics I don't see anyone trading first-round picks unless they are pretty damn sure they know what they're doing. Teams keep finding gems - look at Kuzma, the guy was picked 27th. Or Donovan Mitchell at... I think 12th?

Teams have come to realize the last couple of years rookie contracts are gold. You simply get great return for the value, and that's before you get super lucky.

Kevin Love's a great player but his stock right now is low - no team wants a power forward who can't play good defense badly enough to send serious pieces back.

Then don't ask for serious pieces. Ask for cash or picks.

Sure, but consider LeBron's timeline. The guy isn't 22 any more, he wants to win now. He doesn't have time to teach some 19 year olds how to play the game and wait for them to get their shit together through the playoffs; sure, some are just too good and too mentally tough (Jason Tatum... wow, that kid) but most will take 2-3 years to pan out. He doesn't have 2-3 years.

LeBron got Tristan Thomson and J.R. Smith paid, and they have two and one years left on their contracts IIRC; would you trade anyone good for these guys if you were a GM?

No, so don't ask for it. Ask for cash or picks.

No one giving jack shit for these guys. TT is way, way overpaid - his contract is poison. Teams will want sweeteners just to take that contract off their hands on at all (say, future picks of Cleveland's plus TT for an expiring), and J.R. Smith... yeah, you know.

Korver's out. Hood? Serviceable. Nance? Workable. But they work, can contribute 8-10 PPG, which is just fine and higher than what Thompson brings on a consistent basis.

Yeah, true, those are roleplayers though. To beat Golden State (hell, to go through next year's Celtics or Sixers since they are going to both be way stronger) LeBron will need stars around him. We just saw what happened when he played with basically the equivalent of a WoW random group.

That said, LBJ on Toronto? Very possible, and they have the sort of lineup that caters to him. You'd make an instant 3-star team, with a potential fourth star in Ibaka.

Sure, the option is appealing... but come on, you're making me say it again. Salary cap Toronto doesn't have nearly enough room for a max contract without getting rid of at least either of Demar or Lowry or most of their pretty good bench plus Ibaka.

IMHO the options are these:

• Houston. They'd need to take paycuts though, for sure, and get rid of some players. Capela is a restricted free agent this summer too, and the guy's gonna get paid.

• San Antonio. A Pop-led team of Kawhi and LeBron is super appealing so... maybe that's the sleeper hit.

• Los Angeles. With Paul George and maybe Boogie? That's not a bad roster.

• Sixers. Sure, and they have the salary cap space, but can he and Simmons fit on the same team since both need the ball in their hands and neither can shoot?

• Dark horse candidates. Pelicans?

[Deleted]

All my vitriol for James aside, I think he should land in LA. Even if they don't win they can afford to build a team for him. One last hurrah before he's too old to play at the same level.

[Ganymede]

@arkandel said in The Basketball Thread:

• Houston. They'd need to take paycuts though, for sure, and get rid of some players. Capela is a restricted free agent this summer too, and the guy's gonna get paid.

They were too close to victory to mess around with their line-up. Re-upping Paul and tweaking is the way to go.

• San Antonio. A Pop-led team of Kawhi and LeBron is super appealing so... maybe that's the sleeper hit.

It's also the most likely hit. LeBron purportedly gets along just fine with Pop.

• Los Angeles. With Paul George and maybe Boogie? That's not a bad roster.

It's not a bad roster, but it's a terrible place to play. Plus, you'd have to deal with Ball.

• Sixers. Sure, and they have the salary cap space, but can he and Simmons fit on the same team since both need the ball in their hands and neither can shoot?

Putting LeBron here would seriously hamper the development of everyone else. I don't see this happening.

• Dark horse candidates. Pelicans?

As I said, Toronto.

Ibaka makes $21.7 million next year. He's a PF.

CJ Miles makes $8.3 million. He's a SF.

That's $30 million. Convince Lowry and DeRozan to a cap-favorable extensions.

And you could end up with Lowry, DeRozan, James, and Valanciunas.

[Arkandel]

Multiple sources are reporting Kawhi asked to be traded from San Antonio after today's meeting.

This is huge. There's zero way the Spurs will not honor that and risk him just walking next summer for nothing.

This summer's trades, between him and LeBron, can reshape the league depending on how they fall.

[Arkandel]

The difference between the NBA and the NFL when it comes to social justice protests.

[buttercup]

Heading to Vegas with my boys the 6th, 7th, amd 8th for Summer League. Mostly there to watch the the Suns after Ayton and Bridges. Can't beat 35 bucks for a whole day of games.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

@buttercup
I keep hoping for a Suns resurgence. They're by far my favorite of my hometown Phoenix teams to watch (and when I can go the games are a blast) but they've been under-performing for ages. Next year in Jerusalem (Arizona), and such.

[Arkandel]

@three-eyed-crow Phoenix is coming back. Give them 2-3 years for their current roster to mature - assuming they all stay healthy, of course.

[buttercup]

@three-eyed-crow I grew up in Glendale and was born in Phoenix. I grew up watching Suns games with my father. We had some amazing and fun runs between 7 Seconds or Less and the Barkley title run.

I loathe the Spurs and the Lakers due to my Suns loyalties. My sons although Texans root for the orange and purple too.

[buttercup]

@arkandel

I would like the Suns to take a slow ride. I love what they did in the draft this year. I love the cap flexibility. I hope we throw out one year deals to not bind our cap space and that Ayton/Booker starts a good core. If Josh Jackson can get a shot he is dynamic enough defensively/energy wise to be great. I think Bridges is exactly the right pick for this team.

I think I want Patrick Beverley since we're stuck with Knight for a bit longer. Kemba/Lowry I just don't want to pay the price for in a guard dominant league when our players should be given a couple more years to develop.

[Arkandel]

@buttercup Slightly different situations but that's how I feel about my Lakers. Kawhi is an amazing player but gutting the team to trade for him is madness, and Brandon Ingram is so young, with a ton of potential.

They should go after LeBron and PG13, and if works out that's great! Hell, they might then get Kawhi next year without trading any major pieces other than clearing salary cap space. But it very rarely pays off to ransom the future of your franchise for a big free agent trying to win right now.

Plus, let's face it, Golden State has at least a couple of more years in the tank, and taking them out during their peak will take a well oiled team, not something put together in a hurry.

[ThatGuyThere]

Also I am not sure that a LeBron, PG, Kawhi big three that you have to gut the roster to get this season even get you past Houston. The Rockets did take the Warriors to seven, not discounting the greatness of LeBron at all but as much as I dislike the style the Rockets played and the Flopping Beard in general the should not be seen as a definite out by anybody.

[Arkandel]

@thatguythere It's super rare for a team to work out all its issues within the first year. Even the Big Three in Miami took a hit until they figured their shit out, and that was with a roster made of veterans who knew each other well.

Adding two/three superstars to a team of very talented 20 year olds would take some more time. I think they need to keep the core and expand, not use it as kindling. LeBron is who he is, but he's almost 34 now... eventually (?) he'll move past his prime.

[ThatGuyThere]

I still think if I was Pop or Buford I would wait until free agency to trade Kawhi unless you get a ridiculous offer, after all no one can really offer fair value for him anyway given his talent so hang on to him to at least slow the development of any other superteam in the west. Because someone will think they can turn him into a ring near the trade deadline and you can still get something for him then.

[Arkandel]

@thatguythere The risk you'd then take is that, although of course you won't get 'enough' back to remedy losing a superstar top-3 player in his prime, there may be more assets now to get back than there will be then.

Having said that, what Kawhi is doing sucks. He's under a contract. If he's healthy he needs to play for the Spurs or anyone else until it's out.

[ThatGuyThere]

You won't get anything close to fair now, the reality of the NBA is that if you are trading a top-5 player the only thing that is really an equal return would be another top 5 player which is not gonna happen in this case.
There is no collection of asset that the Lakers have that equals Kawhi since getting Kawhi and by extension possibly LeBron will massively devalue any draft picks they offer. So any deal with them makes your direct competition better.
You are better off to me taking a bit less immediately sending him East for a year, which then gives a non-lakers team time to woo him into staying and a financial advantage in resigning him next summer, at the very least you delay the Lakers in a year and in the NBA landscape a lot can happen in that year.
Note my reasoning would be completely different if the Spurs were in the East then my call would be to get the best you can now and rebuild as quickly as you can moving on.

[Arkandel]

@thatguythere The only reasonable option East (who'd trade for him and give somewhat decent assets) is Philly. Covington + Saric + picks isn't terrible.

It's just that any package with Ingram (who I think the Lakers should keep)+Kuzma+picks is quite a bit superior.

And let's face it, what do the Spurs care about this year? With Kawhi gone they are not winning a chip in 2019. It just won't happen.

[ThatGuyThere]

@arkandel
They are not winning this year that is true, but you were just mentioning how the Lakers should look two to three years in the future and that holds true for the rest of the league as well. I would do all I could to avoid helping a team I will have to face from now til LeBron retired in what 6 or more years?
Does holding onto Kawhi make the Lakers a less attractive destination for the other big names? that becomes the important question. Which is one we can speculate on but never know the true answer. And I will agree that Ingram and Kuzma + at least two first rounders might make me pull the trigger on the deal is that what the Lakers are offering? All we have heard are that talks have taken place no details from people involved just a lot of speculation as to the pieces.

[Ganymede]

@thatguythere said in The Basketball Thread:

The Rockets did take the Warriors to seven, not discounting the greatness of LeBron at all but as much as I dislike the style the Rockets played and the Flopping Beard in general the should not be seen as a definite out by anybody.

I still don't understand how LeBron didn't win the MVP this year.

[Arkandel]

@ganymede said in The Basketball Thread:

@thatguythere said in The Basketball Thread:

The Rockets did take the Warriors to seven, not discounting the greatness of LeBron at all but as much as I dislike the style the Rockets played and the Flopping Beard in general the should not be seen as a definite out by anybody.

I still don't understand how LeBron didn't win the MVP this year.

It's because "most valuable" is such an ambiguous term. They should have really called it "best" player.

Plus there are politics involved. LeBron wasn't the first unanimous league MVP in 2012 (IIRC) because one dumbass reporter - who had a vote - wanted to be different and publicly voted for Carmelo (!).

TL;DR: LeBron didn't win because people were 'tired' of always voting for him. Same reason Pop didn't win Coach of the Year almost every year.