Development Thread: Sacred Seed
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So I was reading through the thread and one thing did strike me, Seedless being physically superior to the Seeded to a significant degree. It seems pretty unnecessary and also typecasting for Seedless.
Why not just say that the Seedless who are player characters are particularly exceptional people and give them more points for stuff in character generation without it being an overall population trend? With the opposite being that if you are a scion of a great house with the ability to turn the sky into fire then you are more of a random averagely capable person beyond your political/social/wealth status and awesome magic strength.
That also helps avoid weirdness like you have on Arx where every member of a major noble house is a world class talent and prodigy. Something that remove a whole lot of stories that naturally result from positions of authority being inherited.
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@packrat said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
So I was reading through the thread and one thing did strike me, Seedless being physically superior to the Seeded to a significant degree. It seems pretty unnecessary and also typecasting for Seedless.
Why not just say that the Seedless who are player characters are particularly exceptional people and give them more points for stuff in character generation without it being an overall population trend? With the opposite being that if you are a scion of a great house with the ability to turn the sky into fire then you are more of a random averagely capable person beyond your political/social/wealth status and awesome magic strength.
That also helps avoid weirdness like you have on Arx where every member of a major noble house is a world class talent and prodigy. Something that remove a whole lot of stories that naturally result from positions of authority being inherited.
There are in-game reasons for this; story reasons, if you will.
However, and I haven't checked my math again because I had to move, but it's more of a "Seedless round up, Seeded round down" type of thing.
There are also a lot of things you can do physically; I would hardly call it typecasting. I've even suggested to @Cobaltasaurus that the Seedless just use more favorable math for stats than Seeded in general, but we're both in chaos and I only now have internet at home again, so our communication has been lax.
"Excuse the hell out of you. He's a bag of dicks. I'm a carefully curated box of cocks." -- to @GirlCalledBlu upon being misrepresented.
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@coin I obviously don't know what your thematic goals are, but mechanically you could address this by making Seeded be an expensive trait or one that encourages specialization, then to reward well rounded characters.
Otherwise there are ways to balance these things out (if balance is a goal that you have at all, which isn't a given) by making specific kinds of enemies or even environmental hardships that affect Seeded far more than Seedless, encouraging the former to seek out the latter as much needed allies more than simply plucky sidekicks.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel I think they've talked about something like that before earlier in the thread, with monsters apparently finding Seeded /extra tasty/, and therefore tending to be attracted to and desperate to munch on Seeded out in the wilderness, etc.
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@arkandel said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@coin I obviously don't know what your thematic goals are, but mechanically you could address this by making Seeded be an expensive trait or one that encourages specialization, then to reward well rounded characters.
Otherwise there are ways to balance these things out (if balance is a goal that you have at all, which isn't a given) by making specific kinds of enemies or even environmental hardships that affect Seeded far more than Seedless, encouraging the former to seek out the latter as much needed allies more than simply plucky sidekicks.
@pyrephox said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@arkandel I think they've talked about something like that before earlier in the thread, with monsters apparently finding Seeded /extra tasty/, and therefore tending to be attracted to and desperate to munch on Seeded out in the wilderness, etc.
We've also taken an approach wherein while the Seeded are "nobles" and Seedless are "commoners", the Seedless do have power and presence in certain aspects of life, especially many of the guilds. IIRC, the crafter guild doesn't accept any Seeded except those who are good with stone/jewels, but even if you are one of those and you do get in, you can't achieve the title of Master Craftsman unless you forego your Seeded powers for your crafting (which would put Seeded at a disadvantage, if you're doing something intensely physical).
I mean, balance isn't something I'm too hung up on and class disparity is definitely, definitely a theme, but it's nuanced.
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@pyrephox said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@arkandel I think they've talked about something like that before earlier in the thread, with monsters apparently finding Seeded /extra tasty/, and therefore tending to be attracted to and desperate to munch on Seeded out in the wilderness, etc.
That could work and mechanically it's not that complex to implement.
For example certain monsters could feed just off of the very presence Seeded but be weakened (poisoned?) by that of Seedless. So say a Tentaclewolf attacking two Seeded will gain +2X to its rolls while fighting them, so that a third Seeded joining the fight would only strengthen it even more to +3X. But if they bring three Seedless along instead the bonus is decreased to zero or even becomes a penalty, incentivizing bringing those guys over instead of just making Seeded-only parties.
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@pyrephox said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@arkandel I think they've talked about something like that before earlier in the thread, with monsters apparently finding Seeded /extra tasty/, and therefore tending to be attracted to and desperate to munch on Seeded out in the wilderness, etc.
That could work and mechanically it's not that complex to implement.
For example certain monsters could feed just off of the very presence Seeded but be weakened (poisoned?) by that of Seedless. So say a Tentaclewolf attacking two Seeded will gain +2X to its rolls while fighting them, so that a third Seeded joining the fight would only strengthen it even more to +3X. But if they bring three Seedless along instead the bonus is decreased to zero or even becomes a penalty, incentivizing bringing those guys over instead of just making Seeded-only parties.
One Seedless proto-concept we tossed around with @Cobaltasaurus was that certain "ingredient hunters" were almost exclusively Seedless, because the ingredients some Clora Chefs use for their special recipes are very dangerous for Seeded to acquire--either because the environment actively works against them, or the animals and creautres are dead-set on eating them, etc.
It's not that Seedless are more powerful against the creatures, or even that the Seeded are less powerful against the creatures, or even that the creatures are more powerful against Seeded than Seedless--
--it's just that if you're hunting a bear, you don't bathe in honey beforehand, and Seeded are basically just people made of honey, trying to hunt bears.
This sort of concept can be applied to a lot of things, not just hunting and wilderness and physical exertion, so that's something I'm looking at introducing broadly.
(P.S. I don't care how accurate it is that bears love honey, it's an analogy, work it out.)
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@coin said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
(P.S. I don't care how accurate it is that bears love honey, it's an analogy, work it out.)
This assertion is supported by Winnie the Pooh, I don't think anyone could argue against that.
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@thatguythere said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@coin said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
(P.S. I don't care how accurate it is that bears love honey, it's an analogy, work it out.)
This assertion is supported by Winnie the Pooh, I don't think anyone could argue against that.
People will argue about anything on this fucking site, I ain't about to risk it.
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@coin said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@thatguythere said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@coin said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
(P.S. I don't care how accurate it is that bears love honey, it's an analogy, work it out.)
This assertion is supported by Winnie the Pooh, I don't think anyone could argue against that.
People will argue about anything on this fucking site, I ain't about to risk it.
<Reads comment> <takes a moment to look at self in mirror> "Fair point."
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I have found myself a little bit overwhelmed with the amount of writing that in general needs to be done, because I don't have enough of a grasp to be sure if I have enough written and laid out in a readable format or how to get to that point.
So progress is going a lot slow, plus @coin and I have both had RL stuff going on.
But if anyone is interested in working with me on theme stuff, I would be grateful for the help. This could be taking stuff I write about and transforming it to staff easily understandable on the wiki, or putting up blank sketches on the wiki / website of what needs to be written so people will be able to understand the world and the play, and point me at the write.
Basically:
Someone help me tame the chaos in my mind.
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@cobaltasaurus said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
I have found myself a little bit overwhelmed with the amount of writing that in general needs to be done, because I don't have enough of a grasp to be sure if I have enough written and laid out in a readable format or how to get to that point.
So progress is going a lot slow, plus @coin and I have both had RL stuff going on.
But if anyone is interested in working with me on theme stuff, I would be grateful for the help. This could be taking stuff I write about and transforming it to staff easily understandable on the wiki, or putting up blank sketches on the wiki / website of what needs to be written so people will be able to understand the world and the play, and point me at the write.
Basically:
Someone help me tame the chaos in my mind.
No offense Cobalt, but I am thinking it might be time for you to kind of hang up your hat on creating games. You didn't have enough time for the last one, so you shut it down, and now you're creating another within a year? Not to mention the half dozen or so staff positions on other games you've phased out of.
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@magee101 Thanks for you input, I'll keep that in mind.
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I dunno, @magee101 might have a point: Staffing is Super Cereal.
Dammit, now I want cereal for dinner.
Hurrah for adulting; the ability to decide when to not be serious!
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I think @Cobaltasaurus makes games she'd like to play. And that is the key to trying to make any game.
She just hasta share the core exciting parts with a few others, so the workload is lighter, and everyone, including her, get to play.
That's how I see it at least.
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@magee101 said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
No offense Cobalt, but I am thinking it might be time for you to kind of hang up your hat on creating games. You didn't have enough time for the last one, so you shut it down, and now you're creating another within a year? Not to mention the half dozen or so staff positions on other games you've phased out of.
Hey @magee101 , are you and @Cobaltasaurus friends? I'm guessing no, since you'd likely have put this personal, 'caring' advice into a private message.
So really, what was the point then? Why not just NOT POST? And not play and not volunteer? How does it hurt you that she is creating a new game?
If you have to preface your post with 'No offense', you know you're being an asshole.
No offense, but really, fuck off.
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@maira said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
@magee101 said in Development Thread: Sacred Seed:
No offense Cobalt, but I am thinking it might be time for you to kind of hang up your hat on creating games. You didn't have enough time for the last one, so you shut it down, and now you're creating another within a year? Not to mention the half dozen or so staff positions on other games you've phased out of.
Hey @magee101 , are you and @Cobaltasaurus friends? I'm guessing no, since you'd likely have put this personal, 'caring' advice into a private message.
So really, what was the point then? Why not just NOT POST? And not play and not volunteer? How does it hurt you that she is creating a new game?
If you have to preface your post with 'No offense', you know you're being an asshole.
No offense, but really, fuck off.
This.
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I think I'm going to go into somebody's 8-page dev thread with the record of the hours and hours of work someone has put into a project and tell them not to bother, because . . .
You know, reasons.
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@saosmash Don't you know that there are a finite number of games in the world, so no one's allowed to create too many? And, obviously, it doesn't matter how many people have fun playing a particular game - if that game doesn't last for five years, then it must be a failure.
More seriously - @Cobaltasaurus does good design work, comes up with interesting settings and is willing to take risks on games that aren't a sure bet to get fifty log-ins a night. Sometimes that means that they don't catch on (and I hate every single one of you for not playing on the angel game, because I fucking loved that game), but MOST games don't catch on, or they have a brief honeymoon period and fall off into obscurity. That's just how the hobby goes. I, for one, am damned happy that she's willing to take chances on things people didn't think would succeed - single sphere Changeling games, FAE games, Witchcraft games, etc. because I think that each of those games contributed something to the hobby, both in way of fun for people playing, and in the way of code, ideas, inspirations.
There's nothing wrong with any of that.
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STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE.
STOP MAKING GAMES WHEN I DIDN'T TELL YOU TO.
You're not allowed to have fun! If you have fun then there will be less fun for me!
