Nov 7, 2018, 5:34 AM
@rucket I don't think you and I are going to see eye to eye, so I'm going to disengage. This thread was created for what is stated in the first two posts, the end. That's not 'something to take to Arkandel'.
I owe a lot of people some apologies.
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I think the really oogy thing here is that personal, private details about offline lives became fodder for this and not just like irritations and passing upsets that happen between players while logged in to a game. I guess that's the part that's making me squirmy in terms of whats alleged because if true, that's kind of a big problem. I'd be super unhappy and justifiably spooked that someone I didn't know in any offline sense went out of their way to repeat personal life details about me to another player on another game. That's a lack of boundaries that's beyond.
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@surreality Like I said, if he doesn't think this suffices, whatever.
But I think the latter part of his 'defense' of his position is a wishy-washy non-position that sets it up that nothing would ever suffice. If it requires the clear abuse of 'official powers' per @Tinuviel, that also means that everyone who private messaged him with whatever personal details (I did not, for whatever its worth) was pretty much wasting their time because there was zero chance of action in the first place unless she was going into people's accounts and stalking their IPs or something.
Ark talks a good game about toxicity, but that's as far as it goes. He's happy when people are flaming me, he's not apparently very concerned with patterns of shitty behavior among his mods, etc. As usual, we get the MSB we deserve.
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@bored In defense of my words, I did say that no situation was going to fit the baseline I offered, and thus context is important.
Secondly, the accused exists as both a moderator and a regular user. You can most certainly strip moderator powers for violating rules or standards as a user. A police officer that regularly drink drives shouldn't be a police officer anymore (ETA: while also being punished for their crime as a regular citizen), for vague example.
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@gangofdolls This. This many times over. The people in question who have contacted me about it, I've talked to. Those who asked for evidence/logs/screenshots were given them.
If they wish to share those things with Ganymede and Arkandel, that is up to them. If they want to post those things to the forum, that is up to them. It is their personal information and their lives, and thus it is not mine to share with the general public.
I don't care what aspersions or suspicions people sling at me for not posting those things in public view, and not just because doing that would actually be a violation of the forum rules unto itself, but because that people would even ask for that sort of thing is just... kinda picking my jaw off the floor that anyone feels entitled to demand everything be placed on public view when that 'everything' is someone else's personal life information, especially for any sort of forum matter. If that's what someone requires for me to 'justify myself' to them, I am happy for them to consider me whatever breed of villain they wish in perpetuity.
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@surreality said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:
@rucket If you want to call me a liar for not being willing to publicly post screenshots of the private, real life business that was shared with me, I invite you to call me a liar until my dying day, because there is not a snowball's chance in hell I'm going to violate the privacy of third parties as regards details of their real lives in order to satisfy you or any other member of the peanut gallery.
I mean you are alleging that certain information is being handled improperly or could be used as some sort of instrument of retaliation. Other people are throwing around a comparison to VASpider, which I think is a bit extreme. And now this thread is really just a tool to lowkey air dirty laundry.
I'm with whoever said things should have been handled privately with Arkandel in the first place. I don't really see what purpose any of this serves other than to cause more gossip and shit.
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@rucket I don't think you and I are going to see eye to eye, so I'm going to disengage. This thread was created for what is stated in the first two posts, the end. That's not 'something to take to Arkandel'.
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@Tinuviel To be clear also realize you're not Ark and I'm not really arguing for or against anything you said. It was just a nearby post using that language. Apologies if it sounded like I was trying to put some spin on your words. His own big post also referred to 'misconduct,' and then he declared none of it happened. So either he thinks none of the stuff that definitely did happen counts as misconduct (which seems to limit it to only abuse of powers in the strict sense you were using), or he doesn't believe it happened (in which case, lol).
Anyway, I think the whole thing is most remarkable as a reflection of how we discuss staffing on-game. This is the precise kind of staff cowardice and inaction that there is some 10+ upvoted peeve post about every other day, it seems. Yet the reaction here, despite all that supposed wisdom, is to do what any MU staffer would do: hide behind some nonexistent policy file and claim their hands are tied.
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I have provided evidence in my possession to mods to review and am satisfied that they will review it. The rest of this is just so much smoke blowing and it's not super interesting but I will say that the absence of evidence posted in the thread is not the absence of evidence that exists to be reviewed. Y'all can speculate as you will.
My only mystery that remains is what led to the behaviors in the first place and I'm pretty sure I will never know.
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This board half exists in order to internally communicate about badly behaving members of staff and games that create conditions for badly behaving members of staff to bless or excuse their behavior. I guess I'm seeing the contradiction of a staff member not being excused from their position here for the behaviors we sort of commonly find problematic or offensive on games...
I feel like there's a blind spot here.
This.
I cannot say I am comfortable with her having access to player IPs on the forum, knowing how often and widely she is staff and thus has access to IPs on games as well.
And this, are my personal concerns.
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@bored said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:
Apologies if it sounded like I was trying to put some spin on your words.
Oh, not at all. I just didn't want my words being unintentionally misunderstood, as often happens so I lept to an explanation simply to cover my own butt.
I think in this case our craving for instant gratification is partially to blame for the rhetoric exposed in this thread. Diligent investigations of accusations take time.
That said, I think that while the investigation is being undertaken some sort of censure should be applied, i.e. some sort of suspension from official duties to show that the allegations are being taken seriously and that something is actually being done in the background.
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How many of you have a fixed IP? Not many.
Unless these IPs are being used, or even reasonably at risk of being used, I wouldn't worry about it.
Then again, I've had access to many of your IPs. OOOooooooooOOOOOOOooooooo.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
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@misadventure I think it's best to let Arkandel and Ganymede comment on that, and frankly that's all I am going to say about it.
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@misadventure It really depends where you're from.
While I'm sure my IP addy isn't very useful (big city & common provider, shared with another player/poster, just a jumble), I recently had a case pop up where it was trivially easy to peg a player based on theirs. Basically, if you're from somewhere less population dense, even if it's dynamic, it can be pretty identifying .
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@misadventure I'd say it depends on what the IPs are being used for rather than whether they're being used. Even with ever-rotating IPs, many of us are undoubtedly on a game while also posting on MSB, so IPs can line up from forum to character(s) on games.
But what risk do we subject ourselves to, really, if our IP gets out from here to staff on a game? (This is an honest question, it's not something I've really thought about beyond identifying Fabian@Fallcoast as Tinuviel@MSB for example.)
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@tinuviel I have a few stalkers, and I know that at least one headwiz has outed me to them. It's part of why I've limited where I play. Knowing that someone who is known to be vindictive, and shares personal information about others, has access to others' IPs makes me uncomfortable.
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I guess we could just treat @Auspice the same way we treat other petty pariahs who linger here, even if she remains a mod for not TECHNICALLY violating the forum code of conduct.
That's not going to be weird at all.
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I just want to chime in to say...
This whole thread is very Dramatic(tm). I wish I could say shit like 'This is why I don't post much anymore!' but the truth is I just don't feel strongly enough about any of you enough to stay invested.
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@admiral
”I wanted to post to say how much I don’t care.”
Yuhhuh.
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@sunnyj said in I owe a lot of people some apologies.:
@goldfish I see your reasoning. The problem with what you do is that bad people will sometimes predate on good people like you, and actually hide behind you when stuff gets hot. I know finding people to RP with isn't always easy, but you will end up being abused, and that will hurt the community in the long run.
Oh, I know this one! Because it has totally happened. More than once! I don't condone my reasoning, I like to put it out there as an alternative perspective.
I've watched my reputation get dragged down with someone else's because GOD FORBID I lose another partner. Which reminds me, there are TWO people I will never play with again. I really want to name and shame this person because they were straight up abusive to me but I don't think they play anymore so it's a shout into the void.
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@thenomain Your post says ten people care too much.