Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries
-
@surreality said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
We need a Your Fun Is Not My Fun But Your Fun Is OK variant of the kinky one just for this.
I'm all for this, but it can be a little draining when others always try to draw you into RP that is their fun, but not your fun. And then, when you deliberately attempt to avoid them, they get either snarky or accusatory.
Seriously draining. I've left games for this.
-
@mietze said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
- you do not need to give your same time commitment to people you dislike as you do with people you do like, and in fact if you try to do this you are probably going to end up being needlessly mean or impatient with them because nobody hides their genuine dislike of someone as well as they think they do
I feel like this is big. It's OK to just not enjoy dealing with someone, make your peace with that internally, and go your own way. I've bent my RP circles a little bit just to be a happier person OOC. This is generally far more pleasant for both people involved, since there is no way dealing with a person that dislikes you is anymore fun than dealing with someone you dislike.
-
@ganymede A big part of that, really, is 'I don't want to take part, but you do you and enjoy it!' -- it's the spirit behind that principle, not 'I'm not into this but since it's objectively OK you can force my participation'.
-
@three-eyed-crow said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
@mietze said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
- you do not need to give your same time commitment to people you dislike as you do with people you do like, and in fact if you try to do this you are probably going to end up being needlessly mean or impatient with them because nobody hides their genuine dislike of someone as well as they think they do
I feel like this is big. It's OK to just not enjoy dealing with someone, make your peace with that internally, and go your own way. I've bent my RP circles a little bit just to be a happier person OOC. This is generally far more pleasant for both people involved, since there is no way dealing with a person that dislikes you is anymore fun than dealing with someone you dislike.
Don't get me wrong, I completely agree. HOWEVER. This is a slippery slope. It's where accusations of cliquishness come from. It's where freezing people out of character-relevant plot comes from. ...I'm not building up to offer any solution to that.
-
@scar
I mean, I've frozen myself out of plots that involved people I simply did not enjoy RPing with. Which isn't great, but I feel like it's all I could've done in those situations. Harmed no one. Not even me. There were other plots, I was a happier person, life went on. Faction heads and staffers have different considerations. Ideally, there's someone they can delegate to as a pressure valve, but it's incumbent on the game environment to make that work. -
@three-eyed-crow Personally, I tend to cut people off OOCly before I cut them off ICly. Especially with well-known or repeat offenders. Sure, you can ask me about this thing in-character but no, you no longer have the privilege of paging me to gaslight.
-
There's nothing I can do OOCly since they aren't breaking any rules, and I do love everyone else on the channel. I don't want to separate myself from that circle like turning off my channels always would cause.
I have decided to avoid this other person ICly. That means sometimes that I avoid things that I honestly enjoy though, and I'm always really sad in those cases. I've also had to jerk my character's brain a lot to fill in the void this IC person left. It hasn't been super fun.
-
It's a balance and it can be difficult. This work of mindfulness is definitely a critical first step though. Hang in there, a lot of us are muppetflailing nerds in the end.
-
@surreality said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
A big part of that, really, is 'I don't want to take part, but you do you and enjoy it!' -- it's the spirit behind that principle, not 'I'm not into this but since it's objectively OK you can force my participation'.
Sure, I get that. But, bear with me.
Them: Do you want to do this?
Me: I don't want to take part, but you do you and enjoy it!
Them: But I'd really like you to join me.
Me: I don't want to take part, though.
Them: Why not?
Me: It's not my cup of tea.
Them: I don't think I'm going to go if you're not going to go.
Me: Why not?
Them: Because I really want you to play with me.
Me: Another time, then?
Them: What's wrong with just joining me for this scene, and next time we can do a scene you want?Some people don't take a fucking hint, and that's when I have to be the asshole.
-
@ganymede yeah that type of pressure is seriously seriously yucky. it makes me recoil a little just thinking about it. but can that be common, oh yeah.
-
@ganymede To some extent, I'm willing to work with that, personally. Depends on how strong the aversion is. I'll play an 'eh' scene once in a while to get to a 'ooh shiny!' scene without much worry.
I won't play a 'fuck no' scene no matter how shiny the 'trade'.
The last line in this exchange can easily be:
Me: Because I'm really not interested in that subject, know I will not enjoy it, and it would make me uncomfortable. We can do something else together, but I'm not going to play that scene with you. If you want to play that scene, I'm sure you can find someone who will enjoy it with you fully.
I don't really consider that being an asshole at all, but my sensors may be off.
-
@silverfox This is something I struggle with. If someone hits my buttons i start fixating and growling like a Bugs Bunny villain. These days i can USUALLY catch myself when i am doing it, but sometimes I don't and i'm not exactly proud of it. This leads to me second guessing myself a lot before i make decisions/replies. Sitting back and thinking 'Okay is what they are asking/doing/wanting actually bad or do they just rub me wrong?' and often trying to put myself into their perspective or see how i would approach.
I think the worst thing is not that we have flaws, but to not work to fix them when you realize it/have them pointed out. I mean people who have known me for a time know i can be more than a little cantankerous, opinionated, set in my ways. I've bitten peoples heads off over little shit and for most of that I have some remorse. What really gets under my skin is when people are like 'well I'm just an asshole' as if that acceptance and ownership was the only thing required. Well you know i'm a prick so do dee dee, that removes all responsibility from me because by georsh Im an asshole and i said it out loud. It's just a fucking cop out.
-
Here's how the conversation would go were it my partner.
Partner: Do you want to do this?
Me: Fuck no.
Partner: I'd really like to do this.
Me: That literally has nothing to do with me not wanting to do it.
Partner: Why not?
Me: There's lots of things I don't want to do, babe, like stick a cactus up my rectum; this sounds similar.
Partner: How?
Me: I don't want to do either.
Partner: I don't think I'm going to go if you're not going to go.
Me: Going to another KISS concert sounds a lot like having anal sex with a horny cactus.
Partner: You're awful.
Me: You knew this before you started living with me. -
There is so much second guessing that goes on. I've gotten to the point with this person where I won't respond to anything they do right away, and sometimes I'll copy a conversation to a friend and ask them to tell me what their impression is. I can't always trust that I'm going to be impartial.
Since I'm super high anxiety + sensitive it means I spend a lot of time going, "Oh god, it's me again isn't it? DON'T LET ANYONE SEE."
-
Honestly? Don't be afraid of burning bridges. Weird thing to say, but if someone can't at least respect your boundaries, then they aren't someone who really values your opinions as valid. Whether they are 'friends' or not may give a little more leeway, a little more discussion, maybe there was miscommunication, could be a lot of things.
But if it's someone you don't know? I dunno, I've told people to go kick rocks for less. I'm too old and too impatient to play that game anymore.
-
@aerianyx said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
Thank you guys. Seriously, thank you so much. This is all really super helpful. Seeing it in writing really helps me absorb stuff, and as much as it sucks that some of you clearly have the same sort of anxiety I do, it's also something of a relief to know I'm not the only one dancing and trying not to trip over myself at the same time.
Something that's become a comfort to me is eventually getting that it's never 'just you'; as a human being in the same society as the folks around you, you're just going to share some very common anxieties, frustrations and hangups.
I mean yes, sometimes it IS just you, but quite often it's nice how much one shares with everyone around them.
-
@testament The other thing is that if someone was a real jerk to you, and they did not learn that that's not acceptable, they usually will be a jerk to someone else and others will eventually usually connect the dots. It might be kinda late for you sometimes, but it often does eventually come out.
The other other thing is that this type's targeting can feel very personal, but it's not really your FAULT that you got targeted, they're just the type to go after someone and guess who was unfortunately convenient!
@wretched said in Learning how to apply appropriate boundaries:
I think the worst thing is not that we have flaws, but to not work to fix them when you realize it/have them pointed out. I mean people who have known me for a time know i can be more than a little cantankerous, opinionated, set in my ways. I've bitten peoples heads off over little shit and for most of that I have some remorse.
I eventually write people off if that continues, even if they feel bad, because feeling bad and not stopping is pretty awful, too. It's harder to protect yourself, though, because you want to give that person the benefit of the doubt and then oops! Burned again.
Really if everyone's saying the same thing about you it's something to look at, if it's a bunch of different things it's probably personal differences but still worth it to look at and evaluate, but if one person feels that EVERYTHING is ALWAYS your fault, it probably is not, but if it IS, then why didn't they walk away? It's not healthy to keep that going.
Sometimes it's not as important who exactly is WRONG WHERE WHY if the pattern of dysfunction keeps occurring so much as accepting that things are just not working and it's time to disengage. Someone commented above that they crosscheck their every interaction with someone with someone else. It might be simplistic of me to suggest, but I don't think they should interact with that person anymore. It's not working. (Edit: at least, don't interact OOC.)
-
Appropriate boundaries?
-
Keep a separation between MSB and actually playing any MUs.
-
Don't give your RL information to people from MUs. I don't care how good they TS'd you.
-
If your spidey sense starts tingling that somebody is being a douchebag and/or creep, you're probably right and should avoid that person.
-
-
A lot of the mockup conversations in this thread basically come down to this:
I would like you more if you were someone else.
We'll, do you want to be someone else?
-
My biggest issue in the context of MU* tends to be from the other direction. If I'm a scene where I'm having fun and I think the other person is having fun, I have a hard time figuring out how to check their boundaries without excessive OOC.
I've had bad experiences in the past where I didn't properly check and I only learned weeks later that the scene had really bothered them and I still feel bad about that.
The most common situation for me is power posing, I know I hate when people power pose me because it forces me to either give up agency of my character, potentially in a direction that doesn't match their personality, or break the scene continuity of the poses, it sucks.
Yet at the same time even very mundane things like giving someone a hug requires some degree of power posing so what I do these days is that in all cases where it's not 100% obvious they'll go along, I'll oocly ask "Would your character go along with X'.
I wish I could just read minds and cut down on ooc chatter though.
Also, why would you even try to nag someone into a scene they don't want to do? Few people write great if they're not having fun, it's going to suck for everyone.