criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong

[Meg]

And, I would like to add for the record, you will probably also agree with the statement when you have a bad interaction with a game.

[Tinuviel]

Ugh, you referenced that guy so I have to instinctually disagree with whatever point you're arguing.

[faraday]

I don't understand why we can't just lock the ad threads once they're posted. Preferably to the owner so they can update it as needed, but even making them post a new thread each time would be better than this constant bickering we've had for the past year. Either way, having a policy that isn't even slightly enforced is just invitation to ignore other policies too.

[Pacha]

I think if there is going to be discussion on ad threads at all at all, there should be both positive and negative feedback allowed. Otherwise just lock the thread immediately after the ad is posted and have the ad stand on its own.

[Misadventure]

You would have to provide an argument as two why an ad with no endorsements acts as a false positive.

As is, an ad is a piece of information. It is a service. Any commentary that buries that information reduces the value of that service.

Any commentary contained on an ad space can be erased by removing the thread, which the creator is allowed to do, and replacing it with a new thread of the exact same ad.

Placing a link to a commentary thread created by another (preferably forum staff) on the ad allows for the function of the ad AND the security and moderation of the commentary.

Commentary is held to very low standards, and will not be moderated, and as such can be just as much disinformation as informative. Given this forums tendency for hyperbole, shout downs, a few vocal groups, and very realistically differing interpretations and expectations, it is not worth policing commentary. Just give it is own space.

[Tinuviel]

Okay, since I have to be 'constructive' I'll add these points:

1. The rule is enforced on whim, rather than uniformly.
2. The rule encourages people to 'dogpile' demanding people obey the rule - much akin to the incredibly loud child insisting "SHHHHH" over quiet conversation.
3. If people can't handle people complaining at them in their advertising thread should really look at their desire to run a game of screaming, insistent, entitled people.
4. There is no number four.
5. Clamp down on the behaviour you dislike, not every behaviour tangental to it. One can criticise without being a dick.

[Caryatid]

On another forum I visited regularly before it died, they had an advertisement section, with ads locked only to the person who posted the ad, and then a reviews section, where people could throw up posts about their experience on games. It was not a no holds barred section of the forum, there were still civil rules of engagement expected, but you could bring in the positive and the negative there.

It might be a decent option.

[Kanye Qwest]

you suck

wait, this is mildly constructive

you don't /rock/

I mean I agree that having different 'reviews' in the ad threads is helpful, but people are not great at not devolving into personal criticisms? HABITUAL LINE STEPPERS ON THIS BOARD

[Paris]

I'd prefer to keep it separate. You can do a search on topics, so it's not difficult to look for threads calling out bad behavior, either in constructive or in the Hog Pit.

This is reinforced by my personal experiences of my own game threads being trolled with false accusations and just constant bitching about systems (sometimes for pages) that we'd implemented by people who did not even play the game, attempts to derail conversations, and so on, and it was all allowed to stand. People's own shittiness is why this rule got implemented, and while I don't run or staff anywhere now, I don't feel like seeing it come back.

[TNP]

@faraday said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

I don't understand why we can't just lock the ad threads once they're posted. Preferably to the owner so they can update it as needed,

Agreed. The ad forum should be limited to 'this game exists'. A second post by admin should be a link to another thread to discuss the pros and con.

[Tinuviel]

I'd also recommend, in the case of locking ad threads as they are posted, to 'enforcing' a uniform template for advertisments. To ensure that information is all we're getting, rather than the biases of the advertiser.

Name of the game, connection details, links to websites/wiki/etc. Brief blurb about the game. Codebase information. Targeted initial playerbase size. Etc.

[Paris]

Locking the thread to one post means, AFAIK, that it'll just fall down the page. If there are any important updates, infos, etc, not being able to follow-up post is inconvenient.

[Doozer]

@tnp said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

@faraday said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

I don't understand why we can't just lock the ad threads once they're posted. Preferably to the owner so they can update it as needed,

Agreed. The ad forum should be limited to 'this game exists'. A second post by admin should be a link to another thread to discuss the pros and con.

I'm gonna co sign to this shit.

[Tinuviel]

@paris said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

If there are any important updates

If the updates are important enough, they can post a new ad.

[mietze]

1000 percent agree and wish that Ad forum posts were locked at the first one. The maker of that post can always edit, IIRC, even if it's impossible for others to comment upon, so it can still be updated, ect. (Or maybe game makers will just have to decide if they want to blow their chance on an incomplete/coming game, or maybe just advertise once they're fully prepared for people to log in/go through CG).

There are ample opportunities for people to present criticism either constructive or otherwise in the appropriate forums for the tone/manner of their criticism.

[faraday]

@tinuviel said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

The rule encourages people to 'dogpile' demanding people obey the rule - much akin to the incredibly loud child insisting "SHHHHH" over quiet conversation.

The moderators have previously asked people to chime in when they think someone is stepping over the line.

Either there are rules and the community is expected to apply peer pressure when people step outside the rules, or there aren't. It can't be both ways.

[Meg]

@mietze said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

%r%r

i just wanted to quote this for posterity. because it is cute. that isn't constructive i know.

[GangOfDolls]

Locking ads might be the way to go but this relies on board admin having the time and want to have to stay on top that. So there's that? @Arkandel - thoughts?

I personally don't mind active criticism of games even when its not constructive because unless its so blatant that everyone can recognize something as someone just doing a shitty thing out of spite or other bad intent - people confuse constructive pushback as 'I don't like this thing' with 'these people should die painfully' or other attacks when they're not.

That said, I advocate for moving things to places on the board that are more receptive to 'these people should die painfully' because in this hobby, there are enough poorly socialized people who are behavior blind and do that very thing which impacts the rest of us.

What I don't want is toxic postivity policing. That's a huge issue in this hobby in general, where if you can't say anything nice maybe you should quit the game and maybe the planet. And inevitability, instead of letting people have complicated feelings about a game they're trying to play on - they suggest that they just leave the game as a dismissive, condescending answer. That's bullshit and helps no one.

I like to think we're intelligent enough to take negative feedback (constructive or otherwise) with a savvy grain of salt. If you're being automatically bamboozled by every slightly irritated thing people have to say about games, you have perhaps a different kind of problem?

[Tinuviel]

@faraday said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

The moderators have previously asked people to chime in when they think someone is stepping over the line.

Yes. I know. That is literally the problem.

[mietze]

@meg I just edited it out! But yeah, it made me laugh too. Can you tell I've been doing a fuckton of IC writing shit on my game right now?