Game of Thrones

[Selira]

@Aria Hey so, this is unfortunate that this is the case, but we went through the episode and couldn't see shit, and then turned the brightness on the TV way up and went back and ... Oh my god, it's entirely different. There is a ton of detail and you can even track the flow of battle.

Just. Normal brightness you won't see a thing.

[Arkandel]

@Selira This was my favorite scene from last night's episode:

[Alamias]

@Arkandel Yeah, I heard this was the best part. I haven't seen it yet, so curse you and your spoilers!

[Sockmonkey]

Well.

***UGH***

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I think it is clear that the showrunners are just focusing on set pieces and moments that will 'look cool' rather than delivering story or paying off the lore that has been building for eight and a half seasons.

[Selira]

@Sockmonkey ***Huh?***

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I'm curious what else you wanted from a climactic battle sequence, in terms of lore payoff? We got resolution of a lot of threads last night, from Melisandre's prophecies to Theon's redemption. It didn't feel like there needed to be anything more - this was the moment everything crashed together.

Like I'm genuinely a bit baffled by the criticism that an episode that necessarily focused on action was too focused on action.

[Arkandel]

***=I agree with***

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@Selira. And there's nothing anticlimatic about this. The buildup took eight years, the living had faced the dead several times and lost badly every time. This episode alone was an hour and a half - as long as most entire movies, and in those the final battle might last for ten or fifteen minutes.

So no, it's not clear to me at all that the showrunners just want the big pieces. They find time to do small character moments constantly and they've developed them admirably as well.

I'm really satisfied with the way things are going - but also remember... no matter what someone would complain about something. It was bound to happen when hype was built up this much.

When will we see a series again that's worthy of even having expectations be as high? Think of that.

[Rinel]

@Coin said in Game of Thrones:

Oh my god, your level of investment in something you don't like makes me snicker. I hope you find joy in something.

I used to like it. That's what makes it so frustrating.

And I find joy in telling people their opinions are wrong.

[Dreampipe]

Alt Shift X made a two minute joke video that I think sums up where my head is at over it.

***NSFW content***

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YrU1SGDdViY

[Kodiak]

I agree with
***=NSFW content***

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@Sockmonkey. It was a build up for all those years and what did we learn about the White Walkers? Nothing. We didn't learn why the Night King wanted to kill Bran, we didn't learn what his real motivations were. We didn't learn about what his deal with babies was. And why it was only male babies. We didn't learn how he evolved from the one tiny snippet we had in how they were created. We didn't learn what that weird ass symbol meant. All we learned was that Arya is cool.

I already knew! And now the Night King is gone. I mean I will wait until the end of the season to make my full judgment but this was a huge disappointment to me. I thought with the killing of the Night King there would be some revelation. That Bran would give SOME friggin reason why he's so important. Because good god, just watching the battle in ravenvision does not make me feel like he's someone who needs to be killed right away.

[Sockmonkey]

@Selira @Arkandel

***I agree with***

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...myself!

Rather than go on at length, this article sums up my thoughts pretty nicely:

https://www.theringer.com/game-of-thrones/2019/4/29/18522174/r-i-p-night-king-we-wish-we-learned-your-secrets

[surreality]

In fairness, there are five (lonnnng) episodes to go. We still may get the payoff under discussion. (Kept as vague as possible.)

This thread: the art of vaguebooking.

[Roz]

***Spoilers***

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@Kodiak said in Game of Thrones:

@Sockmonkey. It was a build up for all those years and what did we learn about the White Walkers? Nothing. We didn't learn why the Night King wanted to kill Bran, we didn't learn what his real motivations were.

Well, they did talk about why he wanted to kill Bran in the episode prior, and there was a bit of back and forth. About the Night King wanting to destroy all of humanity and its history, and Bran holds all of that history within himself.

[Coin]

@surreality said in Game of Thrones:

In fairness, there are five (lonnnng) episodes to go. We still may get the payoff under discussion. (Kept as vague as possible.)

This thread: the art of vaguebooking.

Uh. Three. It's a six-episode season.

[surreality]

@Coin Oh, huh. For some reason I thought it was 8. Never mind!

[Sockmonkey]

@Roz said in Game of Thrones:

***Spoilers***

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@Kodiak said in Game of Thrones:

@Sockmonkey. It was a build up for all those years and what did we learn about the White Walkers? Nothing. We didn't learn why the Night King wanted to kill Bran, we didn't learn what his real motivations were.

Well, they did talk about why he wanted to kill Bran in the episode prior, and there was a bit of back and forth. About the Night King wanting to destroy all of humanity and its history, and Bran holds all of that history within himself.

***Siiiiiigh***

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But .. why? Why does he want to do any of this? Who is he?

Guess we'll never know.

[bored]

While I'm not on the 'omg its drivel' level, I agree with several people that the quality has taken a nosedive in the post-Martin era. TV writing feels like TV writing, and it yields a certain predictability of story beats as well as annoying shortcuts (the teleportation issues of last season). This episode was still a step up, it almost couldn't not be with the money and resources they poured into it, and it showed off a ton of characters and wow moments, so that's not something to scoff at. Detail wise...

***Yeah just gonna put everything in here***

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I enjoyed this as a big wow factor setpiece, and... dragons dogfighting undead dragons is epic on a movie level and that's worth noting just on its own merit, along with dothraki with flaming swords, massive Unsullied phalanxes, and everything else it delivered on such an impressive scale.

However, I don't think it compared well to the prior 'ooh ahh' fights at the Wall or Hardhome in terms of actually delivering a grounded sense of space and coherence, of putting clear stakes to the whizbang violence. The Wall battle especially took care with that (with its ridiculously gorgeous long takes), and made it very clear where everyone was, which was important with Wildlings attacking on both sides of the Wall.

In this battle... There's a lot of undead, and a lot of soldiers, but the good guy side doesn't have a clear plan ('Uh just send the Dothraki by themselves, they'll do great I'm sure?'), and their total use of medieval siege tech (which feels like it should actually be pretty effective against mindless undead, at least for a while) seems to be a single tiny fence. By the time things are overrun, location kind of gets messy, and its unclear how a lot of the people who stay alive... keep staying alive. We see them zoom in 'omg Brienne and Jaime are dead for sure' 3 or 4 times, yet they still somehow hold out long enough for the Night King to do some kind of Red Carpet slowalk to Bran. Also, thanks Melissandre for spoiling the ending, which took all the tension out of those 'about to die' people. See TV writing.

On the brighter side, I also enjoyed it for some of the character moments which felt a lot more earned and natural than the forced camaraderie of the prior episode. I've always enjoyed Sansa & Tyrion and still feel like they might be pretty relevant in the books (where they may still technically be married), and I thought their scenes in the crypt were well-acted and genuinely emotional. Ditto Dany and Jorah, and the last stand of little Lady Mormont.

[Rinel]

@bored

***These are useful little buttons***

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This might just be good old-fashioned sexist raised-in-the-South notions of chivalry that I haven't managed to shake (it absolutely is) but Jorah's last stand was by far my favorite part of the episode and of the season. The noble knight protecting his lady until the very end without even a moment's hesitation. It was a moment of just pure old stereotypical trope goodness, and I appreciated the hell out of it as an end for the exile. Knight until the very end.

Godspeed, Ser Jorah.

[Arkandel]

***=Another thing***

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... is that for the most part the Night King and his forces, other than being a massive threat to all life, are not very conductive to cinematography; all you can do is fight them, run away from them or be afraid/defiant of the dead. They don't talk, there's no dialogue; you can't negotiate with them. They won't give you a rundown of their hopes and ambitions.

I feel a lot of the discontent comes from having different expectations of the show than it wanted to cater to. So much I read online was so based on things like time travel (Bran = the Night King), rather extreme takes on who TPTWP is and why, shocking plot twists... but those are not good for TV shows or movies. Most viewers probably still don't have a fucking clue what all these prophecies from season 2-3 were - they wanna see Starks kicking ass because those are their heroes.

There were many truly spectacular scenes in there. Lyanna Mormont killed a goddamn undead giant. Jorah had a beautiful death.

And Arya, a girl trained for the whole show to be an assassin killed someone - and people still complained. That was for Jon! He was being prepared the whole show for it!

... You know, like Ned Stark was the obvious hero of the series. Oh no, wait, that was Robb - the Young Wolf, he was the one. No wait.

This series messes with a lot of obvious narratives. It messed with this one as well. It might not be for everyone (but it is pretty damn good) so ... I'm glad it is for me, because I loved the hell out of it.

[Arkandel]

***=Double post to quite someone from reddit:***

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Beric Dondarrion died like he lived... dying.

[surreality]

@Arkandel Posting just 'cause, uh, that did show a 'X died' in the unread posts preview. Our spoiler tags are imperfect.