Mar 20, 2023, 4:29 PM
@Ghost Sure, that's exactly what I'm saying right now. I'm acknowledging that this is what's happening and maybe we should ALL try and reframe. I'm working on it myself.
Ruiz
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@Cobalt And yet you are basically slut shaming me, calling me a creeper and worse, for a log that didn't have any TS in it.
I have provided proof, you've gotten more yourself, I've been told, and yet, you can't just say "Sorry, I got given bad intel, and because it was a sensitive topic for me, I reacted from the gut?"
There was consent for the scene. You didn't even think to ask me anything. You just banned me, and dragged this out. I would have been happy to show you the pages, where we checked in with each other, making sure things were still okay.
I never tried to get your database. There were people wanting to continue the feel of the game, about a half dozen of us, in a discord group discussing it.
And despite EVERYTHING? If that scene did trigger you and upset you, I'm sorry for that. I would never want to have that happen to someone, even if when it was written, it wasn't meant for anyone but the two writing it.
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And yet you are basically slut shaming me, calling me a creeper and worse, for a log that didn't have any TS in it.
This is an entirely fair statement.
If we can all agree that slut-shaming is wrong, then taking 3rd party details of a scene between two consenting writers and releasing log, personal details on who the player is, and kicking off a campaign to label them as a sexual predator...is slut shaming.
And may I say if there are levels of slut shaming ranging from 1 to 10, taking a romance/intense scene log and turning into a sexual predator campaign lands somewhere between "9" and "I asked Danny Masterson to tweet a link to it."
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It's not an accusation if it's conjecture. Spoken like a true weasel. You all deserve each other.
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@TNP Accusations seem to be enough these days. Even with proof otherwise.
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@Macha If I were reading Reddit, and this was AITA thread, you might be right. You might not be the asshole here. Having dealt with Ruiz player at one point, I can very well agree that they are very toxic and have a way of twisting the truth to benefit them.
Having said that, the few times that I have dealt with you on different games has made me wary of having you anywhere near any game that I play or staff, and from what I have heard, others have the same opinion, despite what happened in this instance. I get that you are upset about that, but your reputation makes people wary, and that's just something you're going to have to deal with.
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@LucidArt I have been dealing with that just fine, person I have no idea who you are. All I can do is prove I didn't do what I was accused of in this case. I can only keep trying to show people that sometimes talk isn't true.
But it would be nice if certain people acknowledged it may be possible this didn't go down the way it was portrayed.
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Can I just say that I think it's great that despite a split in the community, the number of people monitoring or reserving the right to come back to post proves THAT MSB IS ALIVE AND KICKIN BABY WOOOO
...and to think someone I don't remember or give a shit about earlier was like (sour voice) msb has only 5 active users waaah
On a personal note, it means a lot to me because I am literally an undead phantasm that would cease to exist if no one remembered (or cared for) who I was, so a huge THANK YOU to both forums for all of the attention. It is literally sustaining my life-force and allowing me to haunt my ex-wife and her new Chad husband while I watch little Kevin grow into an impressive point guard at his YMCA kids league. Without all of this I would be sucked into the bright, glowing vortex of ecclesiastical light I've been avoiding since I became a ghost.
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I'm pretty sour myself right now because my hope that this forum was going to be a fairer and nicer place has been pretty much dashed on the rocks by this discussion, if a moderator is accusing someone without receipts. It just becomes the mirror opposite of BMD, where I do not go anyway.
And I guess a mirror opposite should exist, for people who have been unfairly treated by the gang there, like Macha.
But it has become obvious that MSB is not actually trying to do better, it is just another MU gang that has different perspectives but acts the exact same way.
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@hobos and that's a fair stance. People like Macha deserve to have a place where they can defend themselves without constant ridicule. Really, everyone in the community does.
Being above board, I don't personally agree with everyone else's assessment on the Cobalt situation (I literally just wanted to rule out retaliation before coming to a judgment, myself), but allow me to offer you a different perspective:
There is so much pent-up toxicity across the entire community that (since the days of WORA-on-forward) I think it's pretty obvious that there are two kinds of places: places where the toxicity is encouraged and places where the toxicity is attempted to be kept in check. MSB isn't perfect by any means and people can make what they want of it. It's a communal effort. We could chat about football, the newest season of Mandalorian, and have meditation circles.
Attempted being the key word.
I think that whenever anyone posts anything here trying to defend themselves or be constructive and the angry BMD crowd comes over to ridicule (or keep it going) you're going to see some of that old stuff ignite. For some of these people it's muscle memory, and it's hard to let go of (apparently).
My advice is to keep being faithful to your beliefs and don't be afraid to call out when you think this place isn't acting like it wanted to be. We're all humans here and it may help to have a cricket on the shoulder chime in when old reflexes are kicking.
In short: I think your respectful opinions and perspectives are fair and welcome
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Also, to add:
Of course, I joke up above with gifts of champagne bottles because the truth, tongue in cheek, is that despite the insistence of many that everyone here (including myself) is toxic, there sure are a lot of forays away from that safe space where we arent to interface with us and subject themselves to this so-called unbearable toxicity.
It's kind of the unspoken truth of the situation altogether
Delete the Hog Pit. It'll be fun.
I really don't understand He-Man -
Also, to add:
Of course, I joke up above with gifts of champagne bottles because the truth, tongue in cheek, is that despite the insistence of many that everyone here (including myself) is toxic, there sure are a lot of forays away from that safe space where we arent to interface with us and subject themselves to this so-called unbearable toxicity.
It's kind of the unspoken truth of the situation altogether
Which is precisely why I’m not exactly bending over backwards to do what @hobos is talking about. Would I like this board to be more positive? Sure. It’s a good goal I think.
But I’m also not an idiot, and people like TNP and Tez aren’t coming here to engage in good faith. They’re just coming here to fling shit because they can, and I have no intention of being so bound up in bureaucratic red tape that I just shrug and go ‘but what can you do? Rules.’
The rules exist to guide our actions and (hopefully) make a better board. But they chose to go a different direction, and I’m not going to sit here and pretend that there’s any chance of somehow winning them back. There isn’t. I know it. They know it. Everyone reading this knows it, and if the the expectation is that the admins are going to just sit back quietly and not call them out on that behavior? Then you’re going to be disappointed.
For the people who actually do want to engage in good faith and build something positive, we’re here. But if the BMD crew just wants to behave like howling shitgibbons and scream about how we’re supposed to be better than them, I have no patience for it. They have a board, they can act like idiots there.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
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@Derp And you are doing to Cobalt what they did to me here. One person doesn't need to be evil for the other one to not be evil. Human beings are all complicated. Is it possible that no one was acting in bad faith there? That no one here is a manipulative mastermind and people are just all fucked up and react to things? Isn't that far more likely?
I get the need to defend a friend. But I don't think this is the kindest or most thoughtful way to do it.
I admit that I have been reactive the last few days. We all have lives and stressors and triggers outside of MUing that color and inform how we react to things.
I think that if you want this space to be better than the other one, taking a step back from good guy/bad guy black and white thinking is a great start. I don't think Macha is a bad person. I banned her because I didn't trust her to not engage in problematic behavior due to behavior displayed in my space. If she had come and just been chill and played and not brought her trouble from elsewhere to my space, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Maybe in the future things will change. I'm willing to give people that grace.
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True (and topical) story:
I started playing guitar when I was 9, and around the time I was 14 and started being all hormonal, my little brother (11) started playing guitar. Hindsight being 20/20 I identified myself as the "guitar son" of the house and felt like my little brother (who got everything he wanted MarshaMarshaMarsha etc) was going to make me less special because he, too, played guitar.
So I made fun of him, bothered him, and every time he played I made it so difficult for him that he eventually gave up and I resumed being the special guitar son of the house.
I couldn't let him have a good thing, because if I let him get comfortable with it and flourish then it made me feel like I was the loser in the equation.
Shame I did that, too. Who knows, we could have ended up in a metal or punk band together. I do regret it to this day.
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@Bessarion said in Ruiz:
And I'm done giving your dysfunctional ass attention
"I don't think macha's a bad person but..."
Fuckin c'mon, Senator. There's nothing wrong with owning it.
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@Ghost I was being reactive and I wasn't being kind.
Having dysfunctional behaviors doesn't make someone a bad person, anyway. We all have them. They can be unlearned.
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@Bessarion said in Ruiz:
@Ghost I was being reactive and I wasn't being kind.
But what if other people here are getting snippy because they are being reactive?
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@Ghost Sure, that's exactly what I'm saying right now. I'm acknowledging that this is what's happening and maybe we should ALL try and reframe. I'm working on it myself.
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@Bessarion I'll throw my hat in with that concept. That's got my vote. A little chill and reflection does people good.
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One of the big problems with our community is that we have opted for identifiability with handles, but still operate with a Web 1.0 culture of anonymity when it comes to our actual identities. I'm not saying that we should all post our pictures and addresses or whatever, but this disconnect leads to identifiability without humanization and I think this is what leads to so many of the problems we have seen historically, here and on WORA and on BMD.
I don't know if I have a solution for this, but I do think that is a central issue of the cultural dysfunction of the community.
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Whoops, I said that already. I thought that it was a thing that I had only thought. More the fool I for not looking back at my own posts.