Observation

[Ghost]

Yanno, it's been a while.

I just wanted to point out and say how much I appreciate how civil this forum has become, and how it's become a lot less stressful to check in and see what's going on over here.

If there ever comes a time when someone is considering shutting the place down or turning over the DB to other people, hit me up.

[Derp]

I kind of think it's nice that none of us are hanging on every dramatic instance that happens on some game somewhere, or rehashing decades-old grudges. Is it slower than some other places? Sure. But that's not necessarily a bad thing, either. We still get plenty of traffic to the site, and we normally just post about less stressful things.

For those looking for a little more drama and fire, there are always other options.

[reimesu]

I don't dread checking the place and seeing how mean people are going to get today. It's a relief.

[Macha]

I don't have to think about reading pages and pages of the same crap again and again in threads, beating a horse long since decomposed.

I love it

[Devrex]

Just adding my own voice to this...I appreciate it too. Reading fewer posts, but knowing the posts I see will be civil and thoughtful is a pleasure.

[Rhamnious]

It seems like every time there is a new post it's because someone has died. Just a little depressing.

[Macha]

@Rhamnious Mostly my fault. Because every time someone famous dies, I hear about it.

My life is pretty chill these days, beyond the humdrum stuff we all deal with in life.

There's work, the doggo, video games, joining this cool online TT game that's starting up, indulging in binge watching tv shows while slowly working on learning new hobby type things.

[hobos]

I still feel a bit sour about the last time there was anything controversial posted here, and the dialogue quickly dropped back into unsubstantiated accusations and insults, and it was just excused.

People are going to act like people, pretty much all the time, I guess. But I'm probably weird because I almost prefer being reamed every time I open my virtual mouth on any issue, to the feeling that I am participating in selfish hypocrisy by posting here.

It's fine to think "there is an alternative space for people who clashed with other people, and they both pretty much act the same in their own bubbles, and that's cool".

But it seems hypocritical to say "we're actually better than them, look how civil and fair we are"... when a burst of controversial activity a short while ago revealed this community wasn't actually any different in terms of vilifying others without sufficient evidence.

In short, the temporary absence of anything controversial enough to stir people's emotions isn't proof of people being more logical and kind, at all.

[Macha]

@hobos I mean we don't have an ongoing thread here, trying to diagnose someone we don't like with various mental issues, and we (as far as I know, I'm not staff or anything) haven't chased someone down to their Reddit/FB/etc accounts to message them and talk shit?

So I guess that's why I have no desire to go over to that 'other' place. People here are just being chill and talking about the things they like about how things are now. I don't think anyone said we were better. Just that there's less vitriol.

[faraday]

@Derp said in Observation:

We still get plenty of traffic to the site, and we normally just post about less stressful things.

Have I somehow muted a board or something? This is the first post I've seen in a month. The last actual MU-centric convo (apart from the occasional ad or game request) was back in August.

[reimesu]

@hobos Actually, we're not saying we're better. Well, I'm not. I'm saying I don't dread peeking in to see what's going on anymore. That's not a comparison statement or a values statement.

[Warma Sheen]

@Macha said in Observation:

@hobos I mean we don't have an ongoing thread here, trying to diagnose someone we don't like with various mental issues, and we (as far as I know, I'm not staff or anything) haven't chased someone down to their Reddit/FB/etc accounts to message them and talk shit?

So I guess that's why I have no desire to go over to that 'other' place. People here are just being chill and talking about the things they like about how things are now. I don't think anyone said we were better. Just that there's less vitriol.

Maybe (if we ignore the irony of that post)... But also the "MU" in MU Soapbox seems to be conspicuously absent. Things aren't being stirred up much, I agree. All it took was the abandonment of the primary topic central to the forum. I wouldn't call that a win. Its more of a sad, cringey surrender to me.

Personally, I would have preferred if this place had continued to talk about MUs, but in a more civil manner that invites discussions and thoughts rather than attacks and bitterness, where people can feel safe to share their opinions and it is okay to have different views on topics and every thread doesn't devolve into someone determined to convince the entire internet that they have the one, true, only valid opinion on a subject. Alas, that might not actually be possible.

But everyone has their own perspectives and if people still like this place for what it is, then I'm happy that people can enjoy... as long as they really do enjoy it and aren't just looking for a silver lining on a bleak, lifeless horizon.

[Ghost]

@Warma-Sheen said in Observation:

abandonment

Was it really abandoned, though? really abandoned? <hand-wobble>

@hobos said in Observation:

People are going to act like people, pretty much all the time, I guess. But I'm probably weird because I almost prefer being reamed every time I open my virtual mouth on any issue, to the feeling that I am participating in selfish hypocrisy by posting here.

A bit to unpack, here. So you're saying that you prefer to be verbally accosted every time you open your mouth to participating in a "selfish hypocrisy" that has been mostly tame and quiet? I gotta say, you sound 100% purely dedicated to an environment filled with positivity and "normal human-type communicative behavior" and it shows!

Bizarre statement altogether, imo. It's kind of a "Scottie Pippen Fade Shot I'm not saying something factual but saying something potentially provocative but idk lol j/k grr i really mean this but not sure what this means" statement. It's not really helpful.

I think that if you look at it from a certain perspective, the rift was probably the most directly honest thing to happen in the hobby in probably 20 years.

[Macha]

@Warma-Sheen Well, when you consider a LOT of the MU-threads of the title before, was a lot of negative talk about things, people playing there or here, and so on?

To be honest, if I /am/ playing somewhere, I'm not likely to talk about it. For reasons I would feel are obvious.

[Ghost]

@Macha said in Observation:

@Warma-Sheen Well, when you consider a LOT of the MU-threads of the title before, was a lot of negative talk about things, people playing there or here, and so on?

To be honest, if I /am/ playing somewhere, I'm not likely to talk about it. For reasons I would feel are obvious.

I'm playing all kinds of places right now that people don't want me to be at.

Or am I? idk. I'm currently into PBs with dark haired guys with stubble. Figure it out.

All jokes aside I 100% support you playing under the radar. Everyone should. It gives abusive personalities less of an attack surface.

[Hella]

I'm not sure the quiet is solely an outcome of the split in communities and the decrease of people active here. I think that contributes to it, but there have been a number of times where I've had something I'd love to post about but actively refrained because of the anxiety of people "tracking me down". I've been happily playing somewhere for over a year now and it's been the best experience I've ever had MUing, with the most supportive people I've ever met. And the thought of bringing the kind of vitriol people have laid at my feet to their doorstep definitely holds me back a lot of the time. Because while I know I likely won't have vitriolic responses to my posts, I also know that the forum is visible to all eyes and people will do what people will do outside of it. It's a deterrent that feels pretty unsolvable, save for the most generalized of posts.

[hobos]

I'd feel less of a hypocrite if there was less attitude of "we're better than other people". The abolishing of that attitude is more what I was trying to accomplish, I suppose, rather than encouraging an environment of verbal fisticuffs.

And Macha said it's not about being "better", but "less vitriolic"... only, that kind of means the same thing, to me, and it doesn't align with the acts I've witnessed.

As Hella pointed out, the quiet is more due to people fearing that their happiness will be disrupted anyway if they try to talk about anything relevant. I'd love if Hella didn't feel that way because I would genuinely treasure an environment where her and people like her felt free to express themselves.

Unfortunately yeah it seems pretty unsolvable.

I would have also loved if back when people were jumping on someone with unfounded accusations... those people would've listened to anyone else who was trying to be a voice of reason and fairness.

But human nature is a pretty unsolvable conundrum, too.

I can't really make a post without taking a stab at a solution though, so how about... we try not to care if anyone tracks us down, and let our current behavior stand for itself if anyone does figure us out, because all that will do is let us know who our friends are... and we try to legitimately have better current behavior -- including being as actually fair as our theoretical code demands, when push come to shove?

[Derp]

@hobos said in Observation:

I can't really make a post without taking a stab at a solution though, so how about... we try not to care if anyone tracks us down, and let our current behavior stand for itself if anyone does figure us out, because all that will do is let us know who our friends are... and we try to legitimately have better current behavior -- including being as actually fair as our theoretical code demands, when push come to shove?

Or we could not.

Personally, I'm not playing anywhere. It's kind of a bummer. I'm just too damned busy with life to actually devote hours and hours and hours of my time to a character that may or may not ever get accepted because I may or may not click with the 'in' group.

But I'm certainly not going to demand that people who are playing somewhere and have found that group (the MU equivalent of winning the lottery for many of the people that are still around here) out themselves just so that readers have some entertainment value. Especially not for people who themselves aren't posting the same content.

As far as being better or worse than other people? Opinions differ. I don't think any of us are saying that. I think that a lot of us have said that it's a better environment without certain voices, which is a different thing.

@Warma-Sheen said in Observation:

But also the "MU" in MU Soapbox seems to be conspicuously absent.

That's true. A lot of us aren't playing. We're getting older, we have more responsibilities, our fatigue with trying to appease certain groups grows by the day. But some people are still playing.

If you're playing somewhere, you could always post about that. I'm sure that there are plenty of readers out there that would like to see it. They may feel emboldened to do so themselves. Others don't, for the reasons noted above. It's just a kind of sad reality of an aging and fractured base.

But this forum isn't JUST for MUs. It hasn't been for basically the entire time it's existed. It's so that friends who have known each other for ages and ages have a place to come, check in, communicate about the things that are going on, vent frustrations, support each other, etc. MU is the thing that brought us all together, but it isn't the reason that we persist as a friend group.

[hobos]

I haven't been able to play much either for the past year. When I try to play anywhere, my attempts always capsize too quickly due to my lack of playtime, and I wouldn't have anything to post about even if I wanted to.

But if I wanted to post right now, and had things to post about, but wasn't posting because I felt sad that I might be outed... that'd feel worse for me, hypothetically, than it would feel for anyone missing out on my potential posts.

And I do know how that feels. I have experienced refraining from posting not only because I'm worried about outing myself, but outing someone else as well.

Still, posting about things that interest you and may peripherally lead to being tracked-down is not the same as directly outing yourself as a persona non grata. I'm confident that anyone could track me down if they wanted to and it wouldn't be difficult. My suggestion (not demand) was less for my own entertainment value than it was for community/individual health.

[Ghost]

@hobos said in Observation:

I'd feel less of a hypocrite if there was less attitude of "we're better than other people". The abolishing of that attitude is more what I was trying to accomplish, I suppose, rather than encouraging an environment of verbal fisticuffs.

And Macha said it's not about being "better", but "less vitriolic"... only, that kind of means the same thing, to me, and it doesn't align with the acts I've witnessed.

As Hella pointed out, the quiet is more due to people fearing that their happiness will be disrupted anyway if they try to talk about anything relevant. I'd love if Hella didn't feel that way because I would genuinely treasure an environment where her and people like her felt free to express themselves.

Unfortunately yeah it seems pretty unsolvable.

I would have also loved if back when people were jumping on someone with unfounded accusations... those people would've listened to anyone else who was trying to be a voice of reason and fairness.

But human nature is a pretty unsolvable conundrum, too.

I can't really make a post without taking a stab at a solution though, so how about... we try not to care if anyone tracks us down, and let our current behavior stand for itself if anyone does figure us out, because all that will do is let us know who our friends are... and we try to legitimately have better current behavior -- including being as actually fair as our theoretical code demands, when push come to shove?

LOL OMG I'm sorry I'm legitimately laughing RL at the degree of SWERRVVVVVE I detected in that post. Like: sweeeeeerrrrrrrrrrrrve*dimPleWinkAtCamera seeWutIDudDatDere wiiiiink.

Poetic. I'll give it a 6.5.

heh I don't really even give a fuck anymore about putting effort into using nicer words to describe some of the people I've met in this club. I have met some of the strangest and most desperately full of shit people in my life in this hobby, and that's saying something since I've been at music industry parties and concert after-party shit. God it's so dumb. the amount that people care about any of this drama is just dumb. LOL the people in the hobby that are constantly high-browing like "they're the problem, not me", when you think about it, are less relevant in life's mysterious journey than an attempted musical reunion of Robert Palmer's weird clone dancers, but only without Robert Palmer. THAT is the level of relevancy this drama has in actual global terms. lol. The amount of "shit don't stink" around 9/10ths of the people who think their opinion "holds weight because I'm popular" is hilarious. What? Coolest kid in the fuckin' Power Rangers club at Walt Whitman High? That's you. You're the coolest person. -There-. I swear to you that the gates of Valhalla are -enthralled- with your life's story and importance because you think you're the "social ace" out of a society of people who "fight with each other over who's most important" in a hobby consisting of *roleplaying as Paul Fuckin Walker as 'sexy werewolf stud part 6' on a server with like...10 people on it.

I shouldn't type high. This is hilarious and just...dumb.
So dumb.
lol so dumb.
I gotta send this lol so...oh my god. so...so...sodumb.

Sorry gotta edit. I'm dyin' here. @Derp yall about to get like 30 "PROVE YOURSELF TO THE MORAL RIGHT THAT YOU'RE NOT A CORRUPT FUCKWIT, SLAAAAAY GHOST TO SATISFY OUR NEED FOR TRIBUTE."MESSAGES. Fuckin hilarious. Slay my "identity" and ban or whatever if you want or don't. Y'all know everyone's going to be watching to see if a new account like "NotGhost" shows up and you swept me back in under the curtain, anyway. lol jesus I am not good enough a writer to properly describe the level of 'this is dumb' I mean to convey...