I think it's very simple.
If you are going to run or play a historical game, you should be made to watch a few episodes of Reign (or some other similar drama wherein the specific era you are aiming for is depicted in full-on Hollywood glory).
If you can stomach it, nay, even enjoy it, despite its inaccuracies and ridiculousness? Carry on.
If you can't? Stop. Figure out something else to run/play.
@peasoupling said in Historical MU*s:
have some reason to pick a setting other than "it's a neat time period and I want to play a craftsman who specializes in belt buckles and dying of tuberculosis."
^ possibly my new favorite MSB quote.
@Misadventure said in Historical MU*s:
Really, you have to ask yourself, like any game, why do you want to make THIS particular game? When it comes to history, hopefully you see a setting charged with a lot of potential change, complex thought and conflicts to dig into, several cultures, and some relatively easy to grasp roles.
If it's because you think Victorian clothes go well with Changeling, you are choosing a historical era for the wrong reason. You forego so much of what modern thought about abuse and psychology has to say, for a hat. A damn fine hat, but only you and a few others will really get the hat.
Oh come on now. I want it for the theme AND the clothes. And the hat.
Can't it be both?
@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:
@Lisse24 said in Historical MU*s:
I think any game that is depending on staff to create all the Things to Do is ultimately going to fail. I just haven't seen a sustainable model for that - unless you count Fallcoast/TR, which is its own beast.
Players should provide the majority of Things To Do. But it's still staff's responsibility - on historical MU* and otherwise - to facilitate, encourage and get out of the way of them doing so.
Agreed, completely.
I'm okay talking about Things To Do on historical mu*s and pondering ideas for staff meta on such places, just not as defense of my own interest.
Historical Mu*s have the advantage of more real challenges to groups and communities. Its not played up nearly enough though.
Despotism is a real thing in most places, and your neighbor is likely to just come and want to take your stuff. Western Mu* this should be played up more. The whole law of Adverse Possession is pretty serious business and is a real thing, especially in this time, which helps solidify the necessity of making such laws. Cattle wars, land rights, heck in the territories, even other 'nations' wanting you out is a real thing.
In the settings I mentioned there are a handful of groups that are easily serious aggressors. Outsiders, neighbors, even religious entities. I would advise against the religious one, because while contemporarily we are very diverse and live side by side in most cultures with various religions, it wasn't so easy to live with neighbors. It was more like being at war with. Look at Isreal and Palestine currently. Likewise we have different views of religion today compared to how they were in the past.
Environment, the best of all. Every now and again you see, its a hard winter post. But staff can do more, randomly folks should be chosen for getting sick or coming down with some illness or another. I said I don't want to play dirt toiling farmers, but a group of friends RP'ing around a sickness can create a lot of things do to. If a town/location is full of NPCs in positions, this is a quick way to knock off one or two, upset power balance, create a vacuum/void to be filled by characters. Do they train their own doctor, do they send away for one from the school, do the RP trips to the next town to get medical attention and face the elements in dangerous voyages? Fires running rampant, nearing the town that is mostly wood ... drought, hunger critters starving cause their normal food source has stayed south too long, or been hunted off.
Internal struggle, there should always be an internal struggle in whatever group structure exists in the game, and this is heavily player driven. Small band, no everyone should be happy with the leader, any collection of families, groups, clans, organizations, they should not simply be happy with the leader.
The three periods I choose had all these elements that could easily be woven into meta for players. The day to day is really up to the players, I'm not going to stop bar RP if I was staffing such a place, but things to do are numerous from socio-political to living (hunting, dealing with a sick animal they own, dealing with a sick neighbor, scavenging for resources, whatever). But its all coupled with the threats as noted above, internal despots, external threats (other cultures/neighbors/religions/enemies), and harsh environments.
Why I choose those three times:
Daneland/law: You are the aggressor, you just marched a badass army through Anglia/Mercia, sacked a very important city, and mean to settle the rich abundant lands about the city. There is a ton of things I could imagine doing without staff intervention in this setting. From dealing with neighbors, to dealing with raiders and bandits, to aggression against others and the moral implications some folks would have a hard time accepting that is what you do. Would I join in against North Umbria invasions, would I sell out to North Umbria for some gold coin after getting a name for myself, would I take land in Mercia to help Aelfred? Would I help my neighbor during the winter, or watch him rot away and take his land come spring?
Formation of Novgorod to invasions by the Swedes: More political, the clans would be like houses in typical L&L play, a leader and some top warriors. They'd probably have regular meetings deciding what to do, where to go. Divide the land, get rid of those who don't agree with the new system, deal with external threats from the east and the far east (the puppet of the Tsar, the Mongols, etc.). Plus as you start to establish and show some resources, its an invitation to the Swedish Vikings to come and take what you have, you have to decide as a group, defenses in the east/to the sea, defense to the west against Russians and the horse riding Mongol overlords/tax lords.
The Roman settlement of Obuda near the Celtic settlement in the area. Same as all the above, same things to deal with the added internal struggle of Roman vs Celtic. This one could be more rife for PvP simply because of this and folks would have to be willing to accept death potential. This is hard everywhere, but seems more difficult on L&L games, there was no end to comments after each PC death in Realms. Maybe more sustainable in bouts of short term as players will ask 'what do I do today' far less, cause it easy to play Celts and have Romans come to favorite hangout or vice versa, without stretching the adventure of the week/month to wolves, bandits, other aggressors.
I'm just a surge protector doing my job, sir.
@Lotherio said in Historical MU*s:
@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:
Players should provide the majority of Things To Do. But it's still staff's responsibility - on historical MU* and otherwise - to facilitate, encourage and get out of the way of them doing so.
Agreed, completely.
I'm okay talking about Things To Do on historical mu*s and pondering ideas for staff meta on such places, just not as defense of my own interest.
Historical Mu*s have the advantage of more real challenges to groups and communities. Its not played up nearly enough though.
That's very interesting, thanks for posting it.
I had a question though - the fact the majority of players won't be nearly as versed as you are in the setting's history also reflects a different one; neither will most of your Storytellers. What are your thoughts about that other than pointing them to posts such as this one or (presumably) more detailed ones on a MU*'s wiki?
While we're at it, even modern day games have had the blues about their players misinrepreting theme or simply using what's familiar to them instead of reflecting on the real thing; for instance St. Petersburg (set in Russia, obviously) often featured what I could only describe as the same kind of thing you'd run into any major US-metropolis based MU*, only with more vodka and different names. Is that something that would/could frustrate you as a game-runner?
@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:
@Lotherio said in Historical MU*s:
@Arkandel said in Historical MU*s:
Players should provide the majority of Things To Do. But it's still staff's responsibility - on historical MU* and otherwise - to facilitate, encourage and get out of the way of them doing so.
Agreed, completely.
I'm okay talking about Things To Do on historical mu*s and pondering ideas for staff meta on such places, just not as defense of my own interest.
Historical Mu*s have the advantage of more real challenges to groups and communities. Its not played up nearly enough though.
That's very interesting, thanks for posting it.
I had a question though - the fact the majority of players won't be nearly as versed as you are in the setting's history also reflects a different one; neither will most of your Storytellers. What are your thoughts about that other than pointing them to posts such as this one or (presumably) more detailed ones on a MU*'s wiki?
While we're at it, even modern day games have had the blues about their players misinrepreting theme or simply using what's familiar to them instead of reflecting on the real thing; for instance St. Petersburg (set in Russia, obviously) often featured what I could only describe as the same kind of thing you'd run into any major US-metropolis based MU*, only with more vodka and different names. Is that something that would/could frustrate you as a game-runner?
A few thoughts on it.
If using Storytellers in an official context, not just PrP, I think staff needs to communicate with them on the tone/mood/theme. This goes beyond Historical, but is beneficial to Historical theme'd Mus. If I as staffer don't want the Western theme mu to be bandits every other week, to the point every play group of friends has their own bandit family clan living off I the nearby wilds, I would need to give them ideas from prospectors coming to bankers and swindlers, or you know, poker challenge one week to marshall in the area the next.
If not using storytellers, I'm a fan of the +plot used on some places. I see this mostly on comic places oddly enough. Folks hit +plot and it finds a general thing to do (stop a robber, put out a fire, save a sinking boat, deal with protestors, etc), and it adds a potential villain (x villain, y group, z a friend unintentionally doing something wrong) and some synopsis of what may be happening (Doctor Doom is robbing the bank after being tricked by Apocalypse - where the code allows players to submit a snypsos with $villain on a line and the code searches the listing of Villains to put in random names). It is a quick access tool to general plot ideas for PrPs that do not involve staff approval and can be used to give a few random ideas to players unfamiliar with them. From plot ideas to aggressors to even mistaken aggression (Hero is tricked into doing something wrong - or Rancher puts up fence on neighbors land after receiving fake deed from swindler, a fight ensues in town by example - folks can stop the fight, or extend this into multiple scenes of figuring out the swindle by checking the law/deeds office, and tracking the swindler).
And about St. Petersberg, as already said here, staff should ask themselves, are we only doing St. Petersberg to put on cool fuzzy hats, drink vodka, and look at girls in bikinis in the snow in cool fuzzy hats, then they probably shouldn't do St. Petersberg (I might just play there for this reason o.O ...). Location should be chosen for some other interest. Maybe some of the meta will involve certain locations and organizations known to exist now, or formely, in St. Petersberg.
Sans staff telling storytellers, or using +plot code of some sort, news and wiki should cover a synopsis of ideas on day to day living. Also, I miss the days staff used to sit down in OOC rooms to meet with and do Q&A with players. We had a couple of these on Realms that went over fairly well.
\Dissemination of information is the key and not just pointing them to threads, but honestly answering questions and talking with Storytellers and players.
@Lotherio That's a really well-thought stance on Historicals. I used to play on a few Western-themed games that eventually fell into a rut of "everyone is happy." Your points are dead-on.
Wow, for some reason I didn't get any notifications to my own thread after a while.
Anyway, I'm glad it stirred up some ideas and discussion on the right level of historical accuracity! I especially liked the idea of the Formation of Novgorod, I'd love to play as a merchant/Varagian. Though, (I tend to think in GURPS terms, mind that) so my favourite setting would be either something around Iron Age or Age of Sail/Early Industrialization.
I have written some RP material for the following settings:
Firenze during the Italian Wars - Political Strife during Renaissance, families battle for the control of the Repubic of Firenze whilst Italy itself is engulfed in a war for the control of the peninsula, with foreign powers like the growing militaristic France or even the Germans from some of the HRE states prey for more land and vassals. PCs could be literally anyone from commonfolk, who would be experiencing the Renaissance and they still would have something to do as Savonarola would eventually come in play, changing the life of the common people or trying to rise through the ranks of society; richer/more influential people would be able to fight directly for control of the city or just enjoy the good life that their money can buy.
Fictional City during John I's reign - This idea comes mostly from Ken Follett's Pillars of the Earth/World Without End. I believe it would be interesting to see how a fictional small city works out surviving the period, mostly trying to stay out of the conflicts whilst trying to prosper. I'd also borrow some elements from games like CK2 and add random events that could trigger depending on the condition of the city or the characters.
Peninsular War - More a campaign than a setting per se, I have lots of material for the battles that happened in Portugal during the Peninsular War, PC's could be members of Wellington's army or the Portuguese that were fighting side by side with the British against the French, it would also feature some old tech spying.
Shanghai Noir - Early 1900's Shanghai was a multicultural place, the European countries had some sort of control of the city, refugees fled there looking for a safe haven, westerners controlled half of the economy of the city. Police struggled to control the ethnic differences and the rising crime in one of the most populated cities of the world, opium abuse isn't an uncommon occurence. Meanwhile political tensions rise across China and the newly founded Republic might soon find itself as the strategic point of a civil war.
I like Scenario 1 a lot. The Italian Wars were a particularly amazing historic era and it would be amazing to play in it.
I'll throw in agreement with @deadculture, Scenario 1 wounds like it could be a great setting. Usual the historical mu* caveat that deviations may abound (that most folks ignore anyone on historical mu*s to argue, cause historical minded folks enjoy arguing), it does have a lot of potential.
I think it's very simple.
If you are going to run or play a historical game, you should be made to watch a few episodes of Reign (or some other similar drama wherein the specific era you are aiming for is depicted in full-on Hollywood glory).
If you can stomach it, nay, even enjoy it, despite its inaccuracies and ridiculousness? Carry on.
If you can't? Stop. Figure out something else to run/play.
