Arx- Gareth

[Kireek]

@Glitch It's not so much that she played that character- but if she wanted me to change my behavior or act differently around her.. she should of told me.. Instead I just kept blundering about offending her and getting onto her shit list. How am I supposed to change behaviors related to certain people that upset them if they don't communicate them? It's not that I think she went out of her way to do that, she just neglected to totally inform me of it happening.

@Rucket Hissy Fit- Singular. Again, in those 'gentle reminder pages' I went out of my way to specify they could fake it, they could just not do it, all are acceptable, it was just that- a reminder if they wanted to do it, the day I did it was the last day. Again, if they faked I'd not know about it, nor particuarly care.

@Caryatid You could of had this discussion.. you know.. before? It wouldn't of hurt my feelings because I'm not overly sensitive about things like that. and we likely could of had a more productive and healthy relationship because of it. If behavior offends you, you don't respond to it with what is basically positive reinforcement and then expect that behavior to change... that is basically setting everyone up for failure..

@Ganymede Never pressured anyones character to be something they are not, that specifically didn't happen. If I informed them of a system existing- and how to use it, well... thats one thing, but I didn't ask other characters to somehow become political characters- I asked guardsmen to do guardsmen related tasks, I asked inquisitors to do inquisitor related tasks, crafters to do crafter related tasks- things that there rp ALREADY is reflecting. Thats actually the kind of neat thing about the task system is its very nice to stretch that stuff over your already existing rp- I never tried to get players to do things that were not in their own characters roleplay oocly- I did that via bribes icly!

[Ganymede]

@Kireek said in Arx- Gareth:

Never pressured anyones character to be something they are not, that specifically didn't happen.

And that's something that I did not specifically accuse you of. My post was in response to @deadculture, not you.

So, good? It still sounds like you don't get it, which is okay.

And, yes, a personality conflict is a very good reason to ask someone to leave a game.

[Auspice]

I'm not sure which is stronger here.

The refusal to accept responsibility for one's actions or the passive-aggressiveness.

[Rucket]

@Kireek said in Arx- Gareth:

@Glitch It's not so much that she played that character- but if she wanted me to change my behavior or act differently around her.. she should of told me.. Instead I just kept blundering about offending her and getting onto her shit list. How am I supposed to change behaviors related to certain people that upset them if they don't communicate them? It's not that I think she went out of her way to do that, she just neglected to totally inform me of it happening.

What the fucking fuck. Reread what you wrote and then think about it. If you feel you need to change behaviors around certain people, maybe your behavior is the problem and you should stop behaving that way in general.

[Ganymede]

@Rucket said in Arx- Gareth:

If you feel you need to change behaviors around certain people, maybe your behavior is the problem and you should stop behaving that way in general.

But how is he supposed to know his behavior is not a problem if no one informs him?

(Not a genuine question.)

[mietze]

@Kireek

If someone, ANYONE, but especially a lead staffer /tells you to stop talking about something like support that you're not supposed to be talking about anyway/ then you are courting trouble by continuing on.

Yes. Even if all the other boys and girls are doing it or someone else did it first.

If you are told to shut up about something and you want to stay on the game, STFU. If you don't want to stay on the game and/or it's more important to you to keep pushing it, don't act all omg surprised when you are (more politely than is usual in this case!) shown the door.

I commend the staff for their decision. Even in this thread of "oh I have NO idea why except for oh maybe a, b, c, d, e, f, g...I mean omg whatever did I do to deserve this," you don't appear to be a player that's a good fit for a small staff that doesn't have time to burn micromanaging behavior.

Thank god they decided not to. This is the type of self-centered and careless behavior that I wish more places came down on, it'd be nice to see it extinguished a bit more in the community.

[Arkandel]

@Kireek Did you by any chance use to play Asklepios@HM? I might be mistaken.

[tek]

Man, I have no horse in this race, but based on his posts, I wouldn't want this dude on my game either.

[Thenomain]

@tek said in Arx- Gareth:

Man, I have no horse in this race, but based on his posts, I wouldn't want this dude on my game either.

I feel the same about the phrase "free you from the game". What a load of political bullshit. If you're going to throw someone off the game, don't say you're giving them anything, lest of all "the opportunity to play elsewhere". This is probably because I lived through the 80s. Hey Management, please don't say you're doing me any favors. Sheesh.

Okay, rant done. I understand that when it's your game you get to behave however you want, but I don't think anyone's smelling like roses, here.

edit to add: Nor do I think anyone is being a one hundred percent absolute shit-stain colostomy bag. I'm seeing honest misunderstanding, poor communication, political wrangling, and finger-pointing. You know, people being people.

[Caryatid]

@Thenomain Where did anyone say that?

This is what @Kanye-Qwest said staff told this player:

"The problem is it is too fundamental to personality conflicts and that I just don't have time since I'd have to be coaching you constantly to avoid the kind of things I see as problematic and I just cannot do that and run the game. I really wish it was otherwise but it won't work out."

That looks like a direct quote. Have I missed another direct quote?

[Thenomain]

@Caryatid:

@Kanye-Qwest said in Arx- Gareth:

[...] we called it what it was and freed both you and us up to move on.

Emphasis mine.

Because nobody has the ability to free someone else to move on. They'll move on when they want, no matter what else you do.

People tend to say this kind of thing when they don't want social backlash. "I'm doing it for his own good." Nnnnnoooo, you're doing it for your own good and it's not important in this situation what his own good is, because it's against the good of the game. Own up to that.

[Ganymede]

@Thenomain said in Arx- Gareth:

Because nobody has the ability to free someone else to move on.

You have clearly never asked someone for full custody or a dissolution, then.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said in Arx- Gareth:

@Thenomain said in Arx- Gareth:

Because nobody has the ability to free someone else to move on.

You have clearly never asked someone for full custody or a dissolution, then.

You know that I speak in hyperbole, just as I know you speak in lawyer, so just to you, good sir and/or madame! all around!

I was talking emotionally and mentally, mind you. If full custody can do that, I want to re-think my life.

Also, if it can be applied to Mu*s.

Because, you know, context.

[Ganymede]

@Thenomain said in Arx- Gareth:

I was talking emotionally and mentally, mind you. If full custody can do that, I want to re-think my life.

Well, you know me: I like to attack points with as much humor as I can muster.

In this context, the comment does seem a little back-handed. But the decision was the correct one. Staff could have ignored him, kept entertaining his arguments, and continue the fruitless interaction; however, they chose otherwise, quite wisely. I see no stink in that, even if there may have been a moment of puerile ear-tweaking.

But, yes. You can free someone by granting a wish or by doing something beyond their wisdom. It doesn't make you a guru or a saint, but it is what it is.

[Thenomain]

@Ganymede said in Arx- Gareth:

It doesn't make you a guru or a saint, but it is what it is.

Which was the point I was defending to @Caryatid. This could have gone better all around, by everyone.

[Kanye Qwest]

Keeping him on the game would have ultimately been a waste of his time, as well as ours. It already sort of was - part of his (valid) complaint is that the decision sucked because he'd invested so much. I get that. It did suck. It was a sucky decision to make.

It was still the right decision. Now it's done, we can focus on what we were doing, he can focus on whatever he wants. I bear @Kireek no ill will at all. I hope he has a lot of fun in games that are more balanced around powergamers. It's a valid gaming style, that we have chosen not to cater to.

I don't know why my phrase incited victim rage in Thenomain, but whatever. I skim him tbh fyi omg.

[Thenomain]

@Kanye-Qwest said in Arx- Gareth:

Keeping him on the game would have ultimately been a waste of his time

Except that it's not your decision how others waste their time. You're not our parent, guardian, lawyer, or doctor. You're one person trying to make play-space for people to, in fact, waste their time in, hopefully in a way that they enjoy. Your only decision is to decide how to deal with how that goes for yourself and your game.

This is pretty much all I have to say on the topic, tho I may repeat myself from now until when people stop doing this.

Which does mean I may change my mind on some of the details as I re-evaluate situations and life and how Srs Bzns all this game-playing is.

Also, I can see you eyeballing me, @Ganymede.

[Kanye Qwest]

Ok then, I amend my statement. We freed ourselves up. Thenomain is also now free to go fuck himself, as rigorously as he can manage.

[Thenomain]

@Kanye-Qwest said in Arx- Gareth:

Ok then, I amend my statement. We freed ourselves up. Thenomain is also now free to go fuck himself, as rigorously as he can manage.

I love how you can dish it out but can't take it. Proves my point beautifully, thank you.

(edit for others: no we're not getting a room, gross! if I have to watch us hate-fuck like this, so do you!)

[Chime]

@Thenomain said in Arx- Gareth:

I feel the same about the phrase "free you from the game". What a load of political bullshit. If you're going to throw someone off the game, don't say you're giving them anything, lest of all "the opportunity to play elsewhere". This is probably because I lived through the 80s. Hey Management, please don't say you're doing me any favors. Sheesh.

Think of it less as passive aggressive politicalspeak and more as an ominous homage to the mobster trope.

In a quiet, breathy voice, the Godfather explains, "You see-- these staffers-- they are like family. I love my family. Respect them, yeah? You've disrespected my family. You've disrespected my family in my house." He pauses, sighing and shaking his head. "I'm not mad at you. Disappointed, perhaps, but not mad. And we're all friends now, after what we have been through together-- so we should be happy for you." Smiling faintly, and nodding to the burly thugs scattered around the room, he explains further to the poor bastard tied up on the floor, "We're giving you an opportunity, you see. A character roster-- that you can't refuse."

Soft chuckles break out around the room, and the Godfather gestures vaguely toward the door. "Go-- give him a set pose. Out in the harbor."