@Miss-Demeanor Sometimes that works, and sometimes it doesn't.
One of the ways a lot of players initially demonstrate the kind of organization, communication, and management skills that makes them good candidates for staff if new staff is being looked for is by running/organizing/managing a group, after all. The group and the game tend to suffer if you force people out like this if they decide to take on a staffing role to help even more. (This is a bottom-up example, which absolutely can be functionally different than a top-down example of someone in staffly power taking on a leadership spot after the fact.)
It also kinda depends on what kind of leadership roles being talked about. If there are dozens and dozens of them to go around, it matters a little less. If it's a minor group, that's a factor. If it's a private group (like the employees of an IC business with some clout or something) vs. 'is it a game-wide faction with major influence open to everyone' is relevant, too. Also... how people get positions -- if players in the group/faction vote for who they want vs. positions are assigned/etc. -- counts for a lot.
@Apu said in The 100: The Mush:
It is a shame to see that the two of them have yet to realize that a mu* should not be all about them. But it is like they want to be the puppet masters and everyone else are their little puppets.
That's really, really not fair. Sure, they liked to play with each other, but I didn't see them propping up their PCs and being assholes about it and giving unfair advantages to their favorites like I've seen people do elsewhere.
Maybe not. But even then, sometimes it felt like a lot of the big, epic stuff centered around their PCs and it was hard to get into it if you were not part of the circle. I had an in as one alt, kinda, but even then, I sometimes felt like a stranger who was looking inside from outside.
"Just leave me alone. I'm not myself. I'm falling apart, and I don't want you here." - ― Daniel Keyes, Flowers for Algernon
@Apu In my time there, I really never saw that to be the case. I admit, I only joined shortly before the Mountain plot, but the only times I saw them bring their PCs out were for social scenes, really.
@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:
To 100 staff: Stop running games and opening mushes unless you are willing to let others craft the story and affect the metaplot. No one wants to hang around a railroad to support your characters in fulfilling your stories. This kind of behavior will contribute to souring an already dying and difficult hobby.
I think telling people not to make games is a sure fire way to bring your doomgloom about. Seriously, its perfectly fine to criticize people for the mistakes they make. I think these staffers made quite a few, and though I'll blame RL for me fading out initially, a lot of those choices probably contributed to me not returning.
But I have to say, it seems like an epic fucking lack of perspective if you think that just because you feel (and I even concur to a certain extent, though nearly as far as you and others have said) they hogged a bit too much of the lime light, they shouldn't have made the game in the first place. Seriously? Its not like anyone has been accusing them of being the kind of crazy malicious mean people that sometimes do end up in charge of MUs. They make games they want to play, and then lose a bit of perspective as to just how inclusive they're being. I didn't see once that they tried to shut people out. In fact, even as some seriously negative players were bitching, those players still got to rise up as far as I saw.
They made a game that for the most part, a lot of people enjoyed. They added something to the community, however short lived. I hope they make more games, hopefully better games. Perhaps I'll even play one of them. But its not a crime to want to play the labor of love you've put together.
Frankly most crazy I saw on this game, were the people who playing there, yet went on and on about how this was just like the last game and how they were still hogging everything. At which point I had to wonder what pathology would make anyone who seriously thought this couple was the worst, would still come and play on their game and keep playing there, all the while paging people about how bad it was. (My response was pretty much 'you should probably leave, then'.) That's dysfunction.
I didn't play on this game but I do know the pattern of the couple that ran it.
This is not the first instance of it not have I ever heard anyone attribute to them the desire not to break the pattern.
So while I would never say they shouldn't make a game, I firmly am in the "More game good" camp. However if you as a player think their next project will be different from their last two you are likely delusional.
It is up to each player to decide weather or not that makes the game something they want to get involved in, but one of the definite good results of places like this is having that pattern being known and the information out there so perspective players can make informed choices.
Or to put in in the terms of a friend of mine, "The roller coaster don't change it is the same ride every time, but that don't mean it isn't fun." He was talking about dating an ex wife again, though I think the point equally applies to games run by familiar staffers.
Yeah. While I hope they do learn from their mistakes, and I really do hope they figure out how to be more inclusive, I am glad that they made the game, and I very much hope they go on to make another.
Incompetence isn't a forever failure. You learn, you have experiences, you adjust, and you try again. They're nice people. I really think they just bit off more than they could chew.
Certainly neither of them is Spider levels of asshole. They don't even come close to the bullshit that KD's staff pulled. They tried. They even succeeded in a lot of regards. They made some bad decisions and messed some stuff up, and they definitely played more starring role than support, but it wasn't on purpose. They could have benefited GREATLY by having someone else involved...but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try again. Geez.
The game runners gave it a good shot. I can't be mad at them for trying because its hard to run a game, yo. They had good intentions. I think we've all played in games where it feels or is just plainly evident that staff doesn't have good intentions and that was not here. They also tried to run a game based on TV show premise that is generally not suitable for trying to turn into a game. It's not the theme, it's just more that the material because its a tv show is full of holes and dead ends and things that flat out make no kind of crazypants sense and despite all that, they tried anyway and got further than most.
That said.
For me, staff was usually running 2 steps behind. They seemed continually surprised by choices or development in game that they didn't seem coming and couldn't seem to catch up with things. So couple this with being total hardasses on things that had little overall impact or wasn't worth their time attempting to police and hand waving things that were actually important, there was a general lack of consistent decision making. You couldn't rely on their answer from one day to the next on a subject. That was weird and somewhat frustrating.
The plot rush thing was really true, sadly. They would run plots by having something happen to a PC, not wait for the PC to fully catch up, and then railroad past them if they were tired of waiting regardless of IC actions taken or conversations going on to coordinate movement forward. Orion was particularly given to this behavior and I think the later frustration with PCs not following up with plot was in part owing to players feeling like the plot was was on rails a bit and because expectations were not communicated by staff on plots and staff would flake out on running things on their own plots, people just gave up on trying to keep up.
Things for me started rough with the amount of PvP screaming match as the only abundant source of RP. It did get better. I don't think this was entirely the fault of players though what I said earlier on this thread about it, I stand by. Staff even admitted that they let certain character tropes and character behaviors into their game without questioning until it was too late if it was good for the game or compatible with their goals as game runners and their stated theme. Largely, it wasn't and the attempts to overcorrect the issue came too late.
But as @Sunny has already stated, running games is a learning curve and you hopefully learn to do it better than the last time.
I mean hell, this game was hands down better than Ashes ever was. I was young and stupid and made AWFUL decisions. We live. We learn. We do better next time. That's how it goes.
Edited to add: I mean I bloody closed the Sabbat sphere on....shit, was it Due Rewards? @TNP, you're the only one I know that MIGHT remember. On players' heads. It was so, so, so, so bad. This doesn't hold a candle to that.
@Sunny said in The 100: The Mush:
Yeah. While I hope they do learn from their mistakes, and I really do hope they figure out how to be more inclusive, I am glad that they made the game, and I very much hope they go on to make another.
Incompetence isn't a forever failure. You learn, you have experiences, you adjust, and you try again. They're nice people. I really think they just bit off more than they could chew.
Certainly neither of them is Spider levels of asshole. They don't even come close to the bullshit that KD's staff pulled. They tried. They even succeeded in a lot of regards. They made some bad decisions and messed some stuff up, and they definitely played more starring role than support, but it wasn't on purpose. They could have benefited GREATLY by having someone else involved...but that doesn't mean they shouldn't try again. Geez.
These are the same people who ran 5th World and while that game was generally good it did have some of the same problems. I am with @ThatGuyThere. Just be aware of what you get into with their projects and I'm sure you can have a bit of fun.
I liked the game for what it was. I had fun and I enjoyed my time, and I don't regret my decision to keep playing it even when I was told I was wasting my time. And I'm happy to made more than a couple of new friends in the process of playing it. But no game lasts forever either. And I'll take something that's not WoD any day of the week.
The game was far from perfect and I have no qualms saying as much. But realistically, if you enjoy a game for what it is, that's sorta the point. Everything else is just a matter 'someone is wrong on the internet and that pisses me off' or 'stop liking what I don't like'.
Play what you like. Enjoy it for it what it is while it lasts. And fuck the haters who think you're wrong for having what they view as 'wrongfun'. RP and the games associated with them isn't a popularity contest, no matter how hard some people try to say otherwise.
@Sunny said in The 100: The Mush:
Edited to add: I mean I bloody closed the Sabbat sphere on....shit, was it Due Rewards? @TNP, you're the only one I know that MIGHT remember. On players' heads. It was so, so, so, so bad. This doesn't hold a candle to that.
No, it doesn't. I picked up the reins after you left, if I recall. Then again, I had a blast being the Brujah Primogen that was twisted into a Sabbat.
The game wasn't perfect, but Andi and Orion surely tried. They were two of the nicest staffers I've come across. Even when I was criticizing some of their decisions, they were receptive and good-natured about it. How often do you find that particular trait among MU staff?
And yeah, I think centering plot around their PCs was a thing early on, but they seem to have deliberately made an effort to tone that down in the latter 2/3rds of the game's tenure. They were more foils than stars while I was there.
So say what you will about the game itself - heaven knows it frustrated the heck out of me sometimes - but I don't agree with all the bashing of A&O personally.
@Sunny said in The 100: The Mush:
Edited to add: I mean I bloody closed the Sabbat sphere on....shit, was it Due Rewards? @TNP, you're the only one I know that MIGHT remember. On players' heads. It was so, so, so, so bad. This doesn't hold a candle to that.
Can't help you. I never played on Due Rewards so don't know what you're talking about. I can't recall any anecdotes about it either.
I've never heard of the two head wizards having a prior reputation, but their reasons basically boiled down to people not hopping on their plots on demand and not giving the PCs an external threat beyond the Mountain Men. That, plus their RL schedule got in the way.
Effectively, they were bored of players not being herded the way they wanted, and decided to cut and run. Now that I know this is what they've done before, I will be more careful in the future about playing with them. A shame too, Orion was a fairly reasonable man from what I gathered, even if they ignored my story teller application for a month. Foreshadowing, probably.
I played Jumar and Nathaniel and have moved onto Arx and a few other places, myself.
They probably ignored your application because you're super creepy and have no boundaries.
the first time i interacted with him, he started telling me about his kinks in ooc, apropos of nothing, then started posing in second person like he assumed we were gonna get our TS on. i've never left a scene so fast.
@tek Did he go on about how all female M*ers are submissive with a side order of negging, or did he just start insisting you'd love to give over all of your free will to him while nattering on about how much he hates drama?
We must discern if this is Rex or Jeurg, I suppose.
Or if there's a third of their ilk meandering about... god, isn't two bad enough?
Oh fucking well.
@tek said in The 100: The Mush:
the first time i interacted with him, he started telling me about his kinks in ooc, apropos of nothing, then started posing in second person like he assumed we were gonna get our TS on. i've never left a scene so fast.
To clarify, I wasn't insinuating that you were doing anything wrong. If he's a creeper, he's a creeper, I was just LOLing about the sudden jackknife the thread took.
@Apu said in The 100: The Mush:
It is a shame to see that the two of them have yet to realize that a mu* should not be all about them. But it is like they want to be the puppet masters and everyone else are their little puppets.
That's really, really not fair. Sure, they liked to play with each other, but I didn't see them propping up their PCs and being assholes about it and giving unfair advantages to their favorites like I've seen people do elsewhere.
