The 100: The Mush

[Tempest]

I miss my TFW character.

[Kanye Qwest]

I dunno, I don't think people opening games to play what they want with their friends is going to kill this hobby.

But my real question is, where's @ghost's game of pure altruism, where staff is not allowed to have PCs and spend all their time making fun rp for regular players (who can then never become staff or they'll have to give up their PCs).

[Lotherio]

@Kanye-Qwest said in The 100: The Mush:

I dunno, I don't think people opening games to play what they want with their friends is going to kill this hobby.

But my real question is, where's @ghost's game of pure altruism, where staff is not allowed to have PCs and spend all their time making fun rp for regular players (who can then never become staff or they'll have to give up their PCs).

Just saying .. if such a place existed, the staff would still get gripes, because they can't run stuff 24/7 and thus only cater to folks of certain time slots who must surely by their best friends.

[Ghost]

@Kanye-Qwest Don't be like that. I have said repeatedly that staff should definitely RP on their own games and enjoy the work they've put in. I'm just saying that staff shouldn't pigeonhole the entire game to being about their PCs and need to understand that by opening a place of RP to the public, there is an unspoken expectation that the roleplayers that they have opened a play space for are joining the game to matter.

By matter I mean: beyond assisting staff PCs in being the big heroes, and not being unwittingly delegated into being supporting cast characters.

People join these games to get camera time, have arcs, and feel like they're causing an impact on roleplay, not to be listed in IMDB as "Guy in Coffee House #3"

My stance is that people who open MUs who do not understand this aren't really supporting their players, but instead duping people to log on for hours a week to support their fun. It's cruel for some of these people (not myself) who put so much effort in or have very little other contact with the outside world, and I don't see anything wrong with joining a game with the expectation that staff intends for players outside of their control mechanisms have an effect on the game.

[Kanye Qwest]

@Ghost Ok

[Karmageddon]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

@Kanye-Qwest Don't be like that. I have said repeatedly that staff should definitely RP on their own games and enjoy the work they've put in. I'm just saying that staff shouldn't pigeonhole the entire game to being about their PCs and need to understand that by opening a place of RP to the public, there is an unspoken expectation that the roleplayers that they have opened a play space for are joining the game to matter.

By matter I mean: beyond assisting staff PCs in being the big heroes, and not being unwittingly delegated into being supporting cast characters.

People join these games to get camera time, have arcs, and feel like they're causing an impact on roleplay, not to be listed in IMDB as "Guy in Coffee House #3"

My stance is that people who open MUs who do not understand this aren't really supporting their players, but instead duping people to log on for hours a week to support their fun.

I agree with you, @Ghost. I also fail to see how this is applicable to a sandbox. Repeatedly, in this thread, several posters have accused @GirlCalledBlu and @Seraphim73 for running sandbox games that they pass off as public games. So now, when @GirlCalledBlu and @Seraphim73 finally open a sandbox, they still get heaps of shit.

In an ideal world, staffers on any game would be cool and would make sure all their players are having fun. Also, in an ideal world, any player who was having a miserable time would just cut their losses and not get so damn hung-up on how it didn't work out. They wouldn't stick around, gnash their teeth, whine, and complain about the abuse they chose to continue to endure -- and I say that as someone who has gotten unhealthily attached, on more than one occasion, and who is hideously embarrassed about it because, hey, I know better, but eh. Feelings are a bitch, and pretendy fun times have a habit of becoming too damn serious when RL is shitastic.

Also, speaking as someone who has little contact with the outside world, I believe that you mean well, but you come across, at least to me, as a patronizing prick when you say things like:

It's cruel for some of these people (not myself) who put so much effort in or have very little other contact with the outside world, and I don't see anything wrong with joining a game with the expectation that staff intends for players outside of their control mechanisms have an effect on the game.

"Some of these people" don't need people like you to be their so-called champion while you backhandedly point out that you are oh so well-adjusted. Which, by the by, your recent rants in this thread make it very clear that you absolutely are not.

[tek]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

Also, for the record, I've heard they're very nice people RL and I wouldnt be doing this if I didn't hope that they'd get out of that cycle of making everything about themselves, because they are very creative, active, and tend to run games with interesting themes. I think, with some control-related tweaks to opening games up to player input, constructively, they could do really well.

Hindsight20/20 leading off with that would have been more constructive and made me look less like a trolly cunt.

So you've backpedaled from "they're abusive" to "I'm doing this for their own good". Cool.

[Ghost]

@tek I think that inviting other players to unwittingly play support cast to your personal PC-driven adventure is abusive to the players, yes.

Also, I apologize, I didn't mean to sound patronizing when I talked about people who don't have a lot of out-of-the-home outlets. I'd like to say that I always try to keep those people in mind when I'm out there, MU*ing. In the least patronizing way possible, the reality is that I have a wife, a coffee house, guitars, clean bill of health, working legs, live in one of the largest cities in America, have a biweekly tabletop group, a corner bar, a working car, and a couple of downtown areas with regular concerts and events. I acknowledge that to some degree my ability to say fuck it and walk away from these games is more of an option for me than some others. I know no one asked for me to speak on their behalf, but when it comes to people with few other outlets, be it because of geographical location, graveyard hours, health, personal preference, etc, I really do feel for those people who run into these shit issues and have to keep plucking the chicken.

It's gotta suck plucking at the chicken for months only to find out that staff opened the game for them, not for the players, and that your opinion on the game, your involvement, or whether or not it stays open means fucknot. That was my experience on 5W, and for the most part since then I've offset my old frustration with some aspects of MUgaming with shrugging and voting with my feet.

Lastly, I don't care about sandbox and when I brought up 5W returning, I was not aware it was invite-only, but I still think it sucks for the people who were enjoying 100 to get their rp legs cut off only to find out that they weren't invited to the game these two staffers were very likely bringing up while trying to politely word why 100 was closing.

[tek]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

@tek I think that inviting other players to unwittingly play support cast to your personal PC-driven adventure is abusive to the players, yes.

As someone who was beaten, molested and medicated for illnesses I didn't have as punishment from the ages of six to eighteen, you're full of hyperbolic shit.

[Ghost]

@tek ...are you seriously fucking kidding me? I apologize that my definition of abusive practices in online gaming didn't meet your definition of real life physical abuse that @tek went through.

Sucks that that stuff happened to you, but fuck off with your over the top fire and brimstone shit. Save that for the real life abuse survival thread. You should be adult and mature enough to realize I wasn't equating sexual abuse to being a dick online.

W...T...F...

[tek]

@Ghost People choosing to play in an online game where they can log off at any time with zero consequence are not being abused, you asshole. Now if somehow they were fucking controlling them OOC or screwing with their RL relationships and finances, maybe.

Mighty fine hill you chose, son.

[mietze]

Claiming you're on a crusade on behalf of the downtrodden pitiful masses (taking pains to make sure everyone knows you are not one of them!) rather than your own interest/inability to get over your anger makes you look not like a champion but a dick.

[Ghost]

@tek Oh my god, I apologize for using an "A" word.

[tek]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

@tek Oh my god, I apologize for using an "A" word.

Maybe you should stop being an "A" word.

[Ghost]

@tek ...seriously?

[tek]

@Ghost said in The 100: The Mush:

@tek ...seriously?

That's what I've been asking for like the past six pages.

[tek]

But seriously. Making a sandbox, even if it did revolve around staff's players, that's invite and opt-in only as abusive? Seriously?

Maybe if they were super controlling about theme and kept retconning RP arbitrarily and started randomly killing off PCs they didn't like, or...

Gotta retrieve my eyes. They rolled across the room.

[mietze]

Also--there are isolated/chronically ill/downtrodden people who are not innocents but really horrible people. I know a few RL. Some of the most infamous run far away omfg abandon ship if they get on staff/run a game--they also are chronically ill (physical or mental) or socially isolated. People are people. Well off, socially and physically and every other measure successful people can be dicks, surprise surprise!

What is ruining the hobby? More good people not getting up off their busy buns and wading in to running one! Not the fact there are bad actors out there--there always have been and always will be. Seeing people spew weird hatred in a public forum might put off more than a few (though admittedly if they can't take it they wouldn't last long anyway.)

[Ghost]

@tek On a human level, I empathize and think what you went through is horrible. I, myself, was never subject to similar things but some very, very close people to me have been and I've been a part of their ongoing support engine.

Having said that, I get that you're triggered, but it's not my responsibility nor your entitlement to get rude with me when I type abusive when you would prefer that I typed unethical.

I chose a word. You and I are both adult and mature enough to understand that I wasn't equating it to sexual abuse, nor belittling abuse victims on purpose.

Knock it with your shit, wtf.

[tek]

@Ghost I'm not "triggered". I'm pointing out that words have meaning. Nice try, though! If you actually read what I was writing, I was expanding on that definition and still not finding a parallel. But please go on with your condescending bullshit. It's almost cute.

I'm also not seeing it as unethical. You've yet to define your terms coherently. All I'm seeing is "I DON'T LIKE THESE PEOPLE" and that's getting really, really weird.