From The Ashes: Detroit by Night
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Yes, but my argument has always been that "harmful stereotype of black, poor people" isn't a bad character concept to have. You've conceded that the problem is how the characters are played, as opposed to the concepts themselves, so I still fail to see why one should block any concept at all.
Except for the Strider Rom, I'm all for banning that shit.
I don't see how sharing your prejudices here is useful. I think I've demonstrated the contrary. People may be attracted to the idea of a game that lacks "damaging stereotypes," but I think a lot of people aren't.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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Wait, is the argument that portrayals can be damaging to the actual entities being portrayed? Or that players get all fighty over how these things are treated?
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If I'm reading The Supremes right, it's done out of a motivation to correct the wrongs done by the racist/sexist/Ect original source material. S/he has gone on to say that you may indeed perhaps get to play anyone but a gypsy but potentially offensive content must pass their muster and all things like poor black person raised in a single parent home probably will get more scrutiny. At least that's what I get out of it. Not necessarily a ban. So maybe a little of both?
While I respect the sentiment as well meaning, there's a lot in it I find paternalistic and unintentionally mildly offensive (and as I mentioned before, even a wee bit racist in and of itself). I am maybe a bit sensitive to shit like that.
Still, this was an interesting conversation!
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I think a big issue is that harmful stereotypes are often in the eye of the beholder. One man's 'flaming faggot' is another man's mirror.
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@mietze said:
If I'm reading The Supremes right, it's done out of a motivation to correct the wrongs done by the racist/sexist/Ect original source material. S/he has gone on to say that you may indeed perhaps get to play anyone but a gypsy but potentially offensive content must pass their muster and all things like poor black person raised in a single parent home probably will get more scrutiny. At least that's what I get out of it. Not necessarily a ban. So maybe a little of both?
While I respect the sentiment as well meaning, there's a lot in it I find paternalistic and unintentionally mildly offensive (and as I mentioned before, even a wee bit racist in and of itself). I am maybe a bit sensitive to shit like that.
Still, this was an interesting conversation!
Wow, we are saying that "a poor black person raised in a single parent home" would get more scrutiny in CG? What's the statistics on that vs the 18 year old hot model chick that has 2 doctorates and is also a badass psychic detective with 13 masteries in various forms of kungfu?
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Despite conversing on this already, I'm not exactly sure what they are looking for. It's not so much the "black person from a single parent home," so much as the same if they profess a love for fried chicken, smoking weed, and loving krunk.
Mind, I think Lil' Jon'd make a fun concept to play.
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@ThatOneDude said:
Wow, we are saying that "a poor black person raised in a single parent home" would get more scrutiny in CG? What's the statistics on that vs the 18 year old hot model chick that has 2 doctorates and is also a badass psychic detective with 13 masteries in various forms of kungfu?
That gets rejected outright for other reasons.
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@The_Supremes hah! Good
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Just adding my two cents again.
I'm not sure about the setting-- its incredibly bleak, (at least, in Changeling) more so even then the wiki and news describes. I fear that this will become a thing that kills fun as time goes on, instead of something that encourages stories. But I don't know, we'll see. I'm a little bit worried, I admit.
Its worth noting that the Supremes was very helpful throughout the application process (Even though I was applying for something technically restricted) and evaluated and approved my app for the most part in an hour after I submitted it... I didn't write my descs, and was tired from work that day so I didn't get a final approval an hour after submission, but I can't blame him for that.
After that he went out of his way to provide an 'intro' scene into the meta and goings on-- admirable, but again, the setting is incredibly bleak so like, that's kind of a wash. Changeling, as a game, isn't really about ultra-dark bleakness. Still, the attention and support from staff is nice.
I've RP'd with two people, so far good. There's a lot of complex situations going on that seem to invite me into being proactive. I haven't figured out what to do yet (I'm still figuring out the character, to be honest), yet the people around seem eager and interested in engaging.
None of this is meant to say criticisms are invalid, and I'm not a shill for the game. Sunny will vouch for me, at least that far, I think.
I'm just sharing my personal experiences playing.
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@ixokai said:
I'm not sure about the setting-- its incredibly bleak, (at least, in Changeling) more so even then the wiki and news describes. I fear that this will become a thing that kills fun as time goes on, instead of something that encourages stories. But I don't know, we'll see. I'm a little bit worried, I admit.
Just in case someone's reading this: This is certainly a thing that is both fixable and meant to be fixed. Its a challenge. I got to take part in a SRP over the last couple days that made a significant milestone.. It was run well, there were some challenges there and it was resolved with a combination of some hints that were earned previously and player innovation, including one player (not me) coming up with a completely novel approach to the situation that took some on the fly ST judgement.
Also I got to say "premature bunkulation" in character which was fun.
So: The setting is grim right now, but its a WIP, and it no longer concerns me as much. I don't think the bleakness will go easy, but I also don't think it'll be this mountain we chip away at for a long time. Only the first couple steps towards the fixing have been done, but it feels like a less desolated world is on the horizon.
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Is this the Hog Pit or Advertisements?
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Just to throw this out there, because I should! I am in the process of making a character on the game, and a bunch of people I play with have been doing so as well, and Sups is reasonable, fun, and while I still disagree with some of his decisions they're consistent and they're reasonable -- there's multiple valid ways to interpret different things, and his is actively valid.
Game gets four out of four stars thus far. He's an active, intelligent, reasonable, and friendly staffer/game lead. He explains his decisions, he looks to make sure characters fit in just right, and is a good storyteller. So yeah, he is as reasonable as he presents himself here. If you're looking for an oWoD game, I have moved from neutral to 'it's a good game'.
My two cents.
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You have my interest, Sunny. What's your circle coming in as?
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They mostly all have their characters done, I'm the lagger, but we're a mostly Unseelie sort-of-a-Household; our former Baroness is now a Knight and we've come on a QUEST to Detroit because of how awful it is there, in short form. The characters are pretty great thus far; it really should be SO much fun.
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If you'll have me, I'm interested in running in. Maybe I know some of that crowd. If interested in having another member, PM me? Plzkthx.
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I'm working on a bit as well, concept is a local but that is up for change. Young Scathach punk with a pocket full of dreams. Page me as Glenn if y'all are looking for more buddies.
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Does anyone know how the Vampire sphere is on here? It's the only OWoD game I know really well.
But if someone is willing to help with Dreaming stuff I'm interested in possibly joining up (I know a little, but not as much as Masquerade). In fact, if someone is willing to help out with a potential 'new guy who realized he was Fae' or somesuch, that'd be probably a good hook for me (also, can I skip being a Childling and realize my fae nature as a late-teen? Pretty please?)
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I am Rae there, and I'm happy to help with Changeling stuff, and yes yes yes you can Chrys as a Wilder. Need to be careful with the local thing, Wizz.
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@Bobotron said:
Does anyone know how the Vampire sphere is on here?
Terrible. We don't have one. (Because Vampire is the only oWoD game I know basically nothing about.)
This may change as things go on, but we have a staff shortage and I'm not inclined to just start handing out wizbits to random people who raise their hands. @Sunny got your other questions.
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@The_Supremes
Whoops. for some reason (I guess because the newsfile for books mentions V20), I thought Vamp was there.Looks like I'm going to dig out Changeling the Dreaming and try to read through it.
