RL Anger

surreality · Dec 21, 2016, 4:00 PM

@Ganymede I think the whole idea of 'selling oneself' in that way is just... meh on its face, I guess. If people like you, they're going to like you with or without the job, with or without the looks, with or without the pog collection, etc. In other words, it strikes me that they're probably taking the wrong approach.

I get selling yourself to an employer, but that's a different sort of cost-benefit analysis sort of relationship, vs. 'someone you will ideally like to spend time with even if it's just long enough to explore their netherbits with passing interest'.

Ganymede · Dec 21, 2016, 4:06 PM

@surreality said in RL Anger:

I think the whole idea of 'selling oneself' in that way is just... meh on its face, I guess. If people like you, they're going to like you with or without the job, with or without the looks, with or without the pog collection, etc.

This is a nice sentiment, but I find it is wholly false. In my experience, the way people think about you changes fast. The whole thread of discussion is absolutely stupid, but I've tried not to comment on it. (In my opinion, there's no such thing as involuntary celibacy.)

I may be a cynic, but I believe that whether or not people like you has little or nothing to do with whether they will date or fuck you. And, frankly, whether that will happen will depend not on how you sell yourself, but how you set yourself up to be sellable. Pearls on swine apply here in the short-term.

I've got a friend. I love him to death. We met as actors. At the time, he was 23, finishing up college, had no car, and lived with his parents. Now, he's 26, he lives with a roommate, has a car and a job, and a degree. His problem of not having a meaningful, healthy relationship has not changed, but he has, at the very least, set himself up to be sellable when the time comes.

Amateur masseuse? Who gives a fuck. No one seeking a serious relationship is going to give a shit.

Professional massage therapist? Very different.

Auspice · Dec 21, 2016, 4:10 PM

@Faceless said in RL Anger:

I generally loathe a lot of the current pop lingo. Bae, fleek, thirsty, ratchet, etc.

'Fleek' is out.
You 'slay' now.

Faceless · Dec 21, 2016, 4:14 PM

I'm so lost. Thanks a lot, @Auspice.

Arkandel · Dec 21, 2016, 4:22 PM

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

This is a nice sentiment, but I find it is wholly false. In my experience, the way people think about you changes fast. The whole thread of discussion is absolutely stupid, but I've tried not to comment on it. (In my opinion, there's no such thing as involuntary celibacy.)

The stupid part about the subreddit is that they view relationships (or even sex) from a purely transactional point of view and they complain about the unfairness when there's no buyer for what they're selling.

Stating "I'm a nice guy, why won't she put out?" is a fallacy; no, they're not nice. They're pretending to be nice in order to get something out of it, and that's the opposite of niceness since they're tying the outcome to the act. Now, I'm not even saying this is anything unique because while dating we (mostly) all put up our best behavior; we'll clean up our apartments better, avoid farting or going into our more controversial hobbies ("hey baby, I'm playing a Ventrue Elder on RfK, you wanna come to my apartment and I'll show you my +sheet?").

And don't even get me started on the argument over sluts who don't put out.

Faceless · Dec 21, 2016, 4:25 PM

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

("hey baby, I'm playing a Ventrue Elder on RfK, you wanna come to my apartment and I'll show you my +sheet?").

surreality · Dec 21, 2016, 4:31 PM

@Ganymede This actually sums it up a little better. I am still on early rounds of coffee today.

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

The stupid part about the subreddit is that they view relationships (or even sex) from a purely transactional point of view and they complain about the unfairness when there's no buyer for what they're selling.

Also, agreed on the massage therapist thing. I did marry one! Which is partly why I've heard the 'amateur masseuse' thing endlessly, as the term is so tied to the... not-therapy businesses out there. (And it would be amateur masseur anyway, goddammit!)

Though if he's claiming he's learning to give himself hand jobs, I suppose it would fit the theme, though I can't see how that'd be a big selling point to women unless they really really like watching a guy jerk it or would rather he jerk it than do it themselves, which really just circles right back around to... coffee, I need more coffee, clearly.

Ganymede · Dec 21, 2016, 4:37 PM

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

The stupid part about the subreddit is that they view relationships (or even sex) from a purely transactional point of view and they complain about the unfairness when there's no buyer for what they're selling.

I don't find it stupid to view a relationship from a transactional point of view. If anything, if people did this more, they would probably end up in more satisfying relationships. I've found that approaching relationships from such perspective often assists me in predicting whether a relationship will go south, and how fast, and for what reasons.

But, then, I'm a robot.

The x factor usually comes down to the intended target. It's generally unreasonable to expect them to approach the issue from a similar perspective.

This is why we robots dream alone.

("hey baby, I'm playing a Ventrue Elder on RfK, you wanna come to my apartment and I'll show you my +sheet?").

This is honestly how my Ventrue Elder on RfK picked people up. Don't knock it.

@surreality said in RL Anger:

Though if he's claiming he's learning to give himself hand jobs, I suppose it would fit the theme, though I can't see how that'd be a big selling point to women unless they really really like watching a guy jerk it or would rather he jerk it than do it themselves, which really just circles right back around to... coffee, I need more coffee, clearly.

If he has to learn how to give himself a hand job, that's your first issue right there.

surreality · Dec 21, 2016, 4:45 PM

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

@Arkandel said in RL Anger:

The stupid part about the subreddit is that they view relationships (or even sex) from a purely transactional point of view and they complain about the unfairness when there's no buyer for what they're selling.

I don't find it stupid to view a relationship from a transactional point of view. If anything, if people did this more, they would probably end up in more satisfying relationships. I've found that approaching relationships from such perspective often assists me in predicting whether a relationship will go south, and how fast, and for what reasons.

But, then, I'm a robot.

The x factor usually comes down to the intended target. It's generally unreasonable to expect them to approach the issue from a similar perspective.

If you're looking for something long term, yes, that's stuff to consider re: if it's going to work out in the long run. As the means of getting in the door/getting noticed in the first place, not as much; I have to at least like someone first before they'd ever get to the point at which I'd be considering the relationship option. This essentially strikes me as putting the cart ahead of the horse in some respects.

@surreality said in RL Anger:

Though if he's claiming he's learning to give himself hand jobs, I suppose it would fit the theme, though I can't see how that'd be a big selling point to women unless they really really like watching a guy jerk it or would rather he jerk it than do it themselves, which really just circles right back around to... coffee, I need more coffee, clearly.

If he has to learn how to give himself a hand job, that's your first issue right there.

It may ultimately solve his problem, though?

Ganymede · Dec 21, 2016, 4:58 PM

@surreality said in RL Anger:

If you're looking for something long term, yes, that's stuff to consider re: if it's going to work out in the long run. As the means of getting in the door/getting noticed in the first place, not as much; I have to at least like someone first before they'd ever get to the point at which I'd be considering the relationship option. This essentially strikes me as putting the cart ahead of the horse in some respects.

Frankly, if you're not thinking long-term, I think you are wasting time unnecessarily. All of the effort to get to know a horrible person would be better used getting to know someone worthwhile. And, for the most part, likeability isn't a factor for me, if only because I have a protean personality.

That said, expecting to get a foot in the door when you have no hygiene skills, no personal independence or ability to obtain healthy food, or no personality or meaningful experience to speak of is pure vanity. Wise men and women can see right through that shit.

It may ultimately solve his problem, though?

You can't fix stupid, especially when it is "so stupid he needs to take classes to jerk off."

surreality · Dec 21, 2016, 5:05 PM

@Ganymede I think of it more this way: when I meet someone (well, would meet, married now so it's not an ongoing process in this particular respect), my first thought is not: "Do I want to spend the rest of my life with this person?" and never has been. That thought never even begins to emerge until I determine if they're worth hanging around with in the first place.

As a result, there are plenty of people I can have a blast with but would never want to tie my life to, and conversely, there are plenty of people who would tick all the boxes for 'would be a stable life partner' save for the 'if only I remotely enjoyed their company' part.

Most of the people who tried to 'sell themselves on the long term' generally were not the best company, which is sorta saying something since I'm an introvert and an only child and well-accustomed to taking care own entertainment for huge stretches of time without any trouble.

This has little to do with whether I would have slept with them or not. Friends with benefits was a thing, back when, and was a pretty healthy thing for me (and those people).

Ganymede · Dec 21, 2016, 5:18 PM

@surreality said in RL Anger:

I think of it more this way: when I meet someone (well, would meet, married now so it's not an ongoing process in this particular respect), my first thought is not: "Do I want to spend the rest of my life with this person?" and never has been. That thought never even begins to emerge until I determine if they're worth hanging around with in the first place.

Then I think your thought process has diverged from the thrust of the reddit thread at issue.

That said, examining at the known quantities and qualities are useful determinants as to whether I even want to invest time in hanging around someone. While there are certainly people I would hang with and never be with, and vice versa, the relationships that have withstood the seven-year mark have been those where their quantities and qualities meshed well with what I wanted in a friend/lover.

My bed-hopping days are over, but they were wasted days in retrospect. I do wish I had taken that time to discover people that I could be bed-buddies with and share intelligent discourse.

Auspice · Dec 21, 2016, 5:27 PM

The issue with the 'transactional' part is how... the 'nice' doesn't continue.

'I was so nice to you, but you won't go out with me?! Well you're a fucking bitch.' ...and then turns around and tells everyone what a bitch/cunt/fat cow you are.

I mean, yeah, I get disappointment if you think there is something and you've been good friends and you've done a lot for them, but they aren't interested. It's OK to be disappointed in that situation. It's what you do after.

Do you continue being their friend and supporting them? Then you are nice.
Do you turn on them, treat them like shit, and/or go out and try to turn other people against them? Then you are not and never were nice.

Ganymede · Dec 21, 2016, 5:34 PM

@Auspice said in RL Anger:

The issue with the 'transactional' part is how... the 'nice' doesn't continue.

"Transactional" is probably a bad way to describe my own approach. Mine is an "utility" or "empirical observation" approach.

Arkandel · Dec 21, 2016, 6:09 PM

@Auspice said in RL Anger:

The issue with the 'transactional' part is how... the 'nice' doesn't continue.

The other issue with it is the definition of 'nice'.

I'm not a rapist, I never hit you, I didn't steal your money or take your stuff!

Dude, talk about placing the bar low. That's not going beyond and above, it's the baseline. Hell, probably a bit under the baseline.

surreality · Dec 21, 2016, 6:57 PM

@Ganymede said in RL Anger:

My bed-hopping days are over, but they were wasted days in retrospect. I do wish I had taken that time to discover people that I could be bed-buddies with and share intelligent discourse.

Weirdly, I tended to do both back then. I was pretty lucky that way, I guess? I dunno. That particular designation tended to be 'great physical chemistry, great friends, the long term or a romantic relationship would never work as life partners without someone ending up dead, though'.

Cupcake · Dec 21, 2016, 7:15 PM

I don't mind bae as it happens, I guess because I like how it sounds, despite the inherent infantilization. (I hate "lass" for the same reason, it literally means "little girl" fuck you I'm a grown ass woman.)

But I do have a growing irk for infantilizing monikers in general these days. I'm reading a series of books in which there are several strong women with different focuses; but reading, for example, the bad-ass mercenary's lover calling her "kitten" makes me want her to slap him.

Auspice · Dec 21, 2016, 7:41 PM

Some of them bother me, but I'm OK with babe/baby, but- I also see it only as a 'between partners who know the other is OK with it.'

I have not minded when people I am dating use it with me.
I entirely mind it when people I'm not dating (or worse: barely know) use it.

I don't mind boo, but that's more in a 'fucking hilarious to hear someone say it' sense. I always hear it as said by Aziz Ansari's character in Parks & Rec (reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vog94NiZ4zo)

Sunny · Dec 21, 2016, 8:15 PM

@Auspice

Yes. Boo! I can't help it.

Catsmeow · Dec 21, 2016, 8:42 PM

@Cupcake said in RL Anger:

I don't mind bae as it happens, I guess because I like how it sounds, despite the inherent infantilization. (I hate "lass" for the same reason, it literally means "little girl" fuck you I'm a grown ass woman.)

I was hanging at my friends house back in (muttermutter) when I was in High School. They had a friend over who I believe was Irish. He called me 'lassie'. I stopped what I was doing and stared at him. He smiled in that yeah-I-know-you-want-me way. My response? "Did you just call me a dog?"