Mar 1, 2017, 2:23 PM
@Auspice
For some reason, years ago, I got into the habit of hitting +where when I'm bored. It makes cleaning logs a pain.
Logging your activity
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@Sparks said in Logging your activity:
I log everything, at least for my own use. Because 11 months later I'm like, "Wait, who told me about that thing ICly?" and I go back and look in logs.
This is actually a bit of a peeve of mine--so many characters having photographic memories. A little while back, I was having an IC conversation with someone, and we were chatting about an event we had participated in. The other player seemed to have an issue with just having a little reminiscing scene and went and pulled the log, then started quoting things verbatim, and it really killed the mood. It was like talking in person with someone and they keep going to their phone to fact check everything you say on the spot.
Logging for PrPs to get your xp is cool, or if there's an issue of harassment and you need proof, but the obsessive need to ICly get everything exactly correct is annoying to me.
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@SG said in Logging your activity:
Logging for PrPs to get your xp is cool, or if there's an issue of harassment and you need proof, but the obsessive need to ICly get everything exactly correct is annoying to me.
Like anything, it can be taken to extremes of stupidity. But your character actually experienced this event. I would argue that their ability to remember something that happened to them six months later is infinitely greater than the player's ability. Having logs to jog your memory is helpful.
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@Thenomain said in Logging your activity:
@Misadventure said in Logging your activity:
We need a function, much like timestamps, where if you are flagged correctly (much like NOSPOOF) the server gives you something that encodes the time AND the exact letters etc of a text string. That could be used for evidence.
Extra points if the ID code can be unpacked into the given string.
If the ID code can be unpacked into a given string, then it can be faked.
Way back when, the headstaff and coders of Shadowed Isles tried to control bbposts from the game to SWOFA* by adding a verification field. They wanted to say that without the code, the bbpost was not legitimate.
Well at first they used the built-in pack() function, and someone using the unpack() function on it discovered that the code was "timestamp + the reader", essentially making the person who moved the post from the game to SWOFA was outing themselves. Clearly the attempt was to find out who was leak and quite probably deal with them.
The lesson from that debacle is that verification codes are only as trustworthy as the people who controls them and the people who uses them. The far easier answer is to be trustworthy staffers on a trustworthy game.
Shadowed Isles was none of these, though I met some of the best RPers I've ever played with there.
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- Note: SWOFA was a much earlier version of Mu* Soapbox. This happened in, what, '98? '03? It's been forever.
It's reasons like this I added a LOGROOM @toggle in Rhost.
It essentially, if toggled on a room (requiring staff), logs everything that room hears. This means that pages and whispers or the like are not logged.
It also alerts people in the room that the room is logging whenever looking at the room (which is triggered upon entering the room).
This is essentially meant entirely for RP purposes to have a centralized location of logging.
Every message is timestamped and dbref# stamped (even if an @emit), and sent to a separate server log which can be scraped for wiki, html, or other things. Naturally the logs will have to be sanitized to remove dbref# and other things when presented publically, but it is there to help identify who (or what) gives the given messages.
I figure this was a good way to ensure people don't falsify logs, or cut out things they feel unimportant but really are and what have you.
Just a tool that people can choose to use or not. I find providing the tools and letting those who run the game decide when to use them works best.
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@Ashen-Shugar said in Logging your activity:
It essentially, if toggled on a room (requiring staff), logs everything that room hears. This means that pages and whispers or the like are not logged.
So ... you invented @ahear. Go you.
(I kid!)
What I was really trying to tell @Misadventure was that no amount of verification stamps can stop someone from faking a log. The only thing that could reliably validate the stamp is the game code itself, which ...
... well, I know I'm speaking to the choir, but others should know a little basic social engineering.
My life-long Mu* coding ideology is that if it's going to come down to: If the problem is a social one, you have to be very careful about applying a code solution. (Extension: Because a social answer to a social problem is usually the best one.)
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I log everything not because I'm obsessive, and not because I'm always having a need for "evidence" but rather because I've been asked too many times over the years, "would you happen to have a log of that thing that happened there and then with those guys?" Logs don't take up appreciable space on my drive and it's trivial to set them up to open and close automatically at connection and disconnection.
I also log all my IM communications for similar reasons.
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I find that I'll log a scene when I remember to log that scene, but typically I'll forget. Usually before I close a window I'll take the entire backlog without editing so that in the event that something happens where, like @WTFE said, someone asks me if I have a log of something... I can scour through the backlog and find it.
Personally I use SimpleMU because it has such a massive backlogging capacity (if you set it to). -
I used to log everything habitually. Social scenes, events, you name the type of RP and I probably at least have at least a couple of logs. Over time, though, I realized that all that is doing is cluttering whatever drive they're on because I like to keep logs for whatever reason and started to just log important scenes that need to be posted.
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Logging everything is such a non-issue when it's so easy to set up, and you gain something without losing anything.
I've never been in a situation where I'd use logs to prove anything? I've definitely been in situations where I couldn't remember something, or I wanted to look back on a past OOC conversation, or reminisce on old times. If anything, I regret not logging more of the shit that one gets into while MUSHing.
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@TNP said in Logging your activity:
@Auspice Nothing worse than logging with a client's logging function. The coder on Dark Spires - I don't recall his name - coded up a logger object that works fantastically. You drop it and it records only the IC that happens in the room so it doesn't pick up any of your pages, bboard reading, +wheres, etc. It's since migrated to other games, including Marvel: 1963 where @ixokai has greatly improved on the functionality and has configured it to the wiki format as well. I never log without it.
Slight correction here.
The logging code we use on Marvel:1963 and Star Wars: Insurgency may look like the Dark Spires code but it isn't anything like it. I implemented it from scratch and have added a number of features to it since (most notably, +log/capture which grabs the location, desc, and all the people in the current room for wiki output; and the ability to view just the last X poses instead of the whole log for connection issues; and the ability to undo log entries so you can repose a fixed pose instead of emitting something for the logger to edit).
My goal for +log is for it to be absolutely trivial for someone to post their logs to the wiki. I post logs after most of my scenes within a minute of it ending, often the most difficult part is thinking up a name.
But lately I seem to be playing mostly (Arx excluded) on games that have heavy log-cultures.
But since credit has been mentioned and I do think credit is important, the only credit I give is inspiration -- since until today I wasn't sure who originated the original code
That said, if anyone wants it for Penn or Rhost they can PM me and I'll email it to you. It won't work on MUX (and I don't think TinyMUSH but I don't touch the server with a ten foot pole so don't know for sure) as it relies heavily on @include.
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@faraday said in Logging your activity:
@SG said in Logging your activity:
Logging for PrPs to get your xp is cool, or if there's an issue of harassment and you need proof, but the obsessive need to ICly get everything exactly correct is annoying to me.
Like anything, it can be taken to extremes of stupidity. But your character actually experienced this event. I would argue that their ability to remember something that happened to them six months later is infinitely greater than the player's ability. Having logs to jog your memory is helpful.
This.
I don't want to play eidetic memory (unless that's an actual defining trait of the character). But my character for whom this is their life will probably remember who told them about that interdimensional portal that appeared in a greenhouse six months ago, or which person told them the archdemon's true name was Steve.
Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately), the player does not live that life, and so will have things like RF attenuation test results, firmware build process, RL family things, and such cluttering up her brain where the character does not.
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I log everything by default. Its not so much so my character can remember things, as I sometimes want to remember something.
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@Auspice
For some reason, years ago, I got into the habit of hitting +where when I'm bored. It makes cleaning logs a pain. -
I log everything by default because by god - I have a shoddy memory. And it also means that when I catch someone in a lie, I have reference stuff. But that's for general MUSH-ness. When it comes to actual scene-logging...
Well, I like to have everything logged. But to expect people to put in the work of logging? It can be such a pain in the ass. Big proponent of automated logging (there's a reason I made scenesys), so that people can look back on things. More-over, having logs posted to a wiki shows game activity. And if you're a smart admin, you could even use it for other information. Like who are your most active RPers and what-not. What groups of people need more attention?
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I log everything. It's not even really something I consciously think about any more, just a reflex to do "/log -wworldname worldname-YYYY-MM-DD.txt" before I log in somewhere.
It is only fitfully useful. But I found that my judgment for "this is worth logging" versus "this is not worth logging" often fails in both directions, so I thought it would be better to take my judgment out of the loop.
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I have an autologger now that @roz showed me how to set up so I can no longer forget to log shit. It's the best.
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I used to log everything but I hit a point where I just quit giving a crap about logging stuff.
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I log everything, included pages, so that if someone makes me angry I've got all kinds of blackmail and MSB material.
KiddingKindOfNoYesNotReallyMAAAAYBE
You know who you are...You're out there.Real Answer:
I log scenes, scrub out channel chatter, ooc, pages, etc using Potato Events, then run them through Faraday's Log Cleaner before posting. I have the logs on my laptop, but if I leave a game or the game closes, I delete the logs.
My potato events that scrub pages make it kind of hard to keep a log of WTFpages if stuff starts getting out of hand, but I've only had to disable them to save a log of pages once or twice, and I never post them on MSB/WORA. I handle my shit internally.
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The only times I ever post logs, is if I need to to get xp. Otherwise I just don't.
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You know, that's interesting. I've never even done this. I am from such an older age of online text gaming that I find myself simply not agreeing with anything but the frustration of people who whip out logs to be pedantic.
I do take notes; oh god yes, I have a file for each character to take copious notes. I have seen people almost be removed from a game because they didn't log, the infamous "prove it" problem. (In most of these cases, prove that someone's not-logged accusation is wrong. So much irony.)
I suppose you could call my pulling information from infinite scrollback (because I use Atlantis, gush gush fanboy at @Sparks) the same as 'logging', but I don't like to worry that when I reboot my computer or quit the client that everything is lost. I want to know that I can say to someone else, "Oh shit, I forgot that happened," and I want to know that they will say, "No problem."
Also, I apparently know so many people who log everything that if I really need it that badly, I can ask anyone else. So I am logging after all, by association!
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@Thenomain said in Logging your activity:
I am from such an older age of online text gaming
Who isn't? I've been doing this for 23 years now.
Back in the day something like a wiki was nearly unthinkable. When I discovered LAMush and their automated system to dump help/news and what amounts to character's +finger to upload to the web it was astonishing to me.
Back in the day I remember the OOC Masquerade and how super serious some games were about it.
Things evolve.