@Surreality - I would mostly agree that some of the more roundabout systems are okay. But even those social combat systems should be taken into account.
For instance, the Status merit. All it does, mechanically, is give you bonus social dice with the group you have status in. Thematically, they're seen as powerful, perhaps more worthy of respect/admiration/fear, whatever. Different statuses denote different thematic things. But the point is, it should mean something other than a fancy title, and if the only people in the group you have Status in are PCs, then social combat is pretty much the only time it's going to come up mechanically.
And I think that this is important to note, because if you are a newly turned neonate facing down a thousand-year-old elder, short of being batshit crazy with no self-preservation instinct, you're not just going to roll your eyes and think 'Jesus, this guy again'. He could realistically tear you limb from limb. People don't just walk up to lions and be like 'whatever, lion, I ain't skeered of you'. Or to the leader of an army, or whatever. They can make your life hell in a great many ways, and you should have some real concern there.
Social combat reflects a system that at least tries to mirror most-probable social scenarios. You might get some bonus dice or negative modifiers if you're an especially cheeky whatever-you-are, but those social combat system should still be respected, within reason. You're not going to Persuasion someone into suicide unless you've got some really serious leverage (pull the trigger or I rip the head off of this person you care about more than yourself), but for your standard social interactions, they should still mean something.
The fact that they -don't- mean much of anything on most games is a big reason why I think antagonism goes off the rails. There's no meaningful -mechanical- threat you can make to try and influence behavior without pulling out the nuclear options, most of the time. Physical rolls become the King of Things. And physical antagonism just turns into the Murderboating White Knightism we've been talking about the whole time here.
So sorry for making that such a roundabout point, but that's part of what I think we should be looking at. There should be meaningful mechanical interactions available for people who don't want to throw down and brute force their way through things most of the time. It would take some of the shiny off of the Brute Force options.
) involved having an enemy's residence declared a historical landmark and had the city claim it to gain access to the building without invitation, for instance. That was great to see make it on screen as a great social mechanic in action, and it stands as an ideal example. (Sure, it was 'gain access and then full steam ahead on the murderboat', but it's still a neat example of something we rarely see on screen or in games.)
