@Misadventure I'm not sure yet how it will integrate with the current game world, because it's largely player driven, and we'll have to see how PCs go about overcoming the current barriers to open, practiceable magic. the current plan is, when magic becomes a THING again, that will unlock a separate, time-gated xp flow, so you won't have anyone who saved up xp suddenly a level 6 bloodmage after two days of study. But, all PCs in Arx will have the innate ability to learn some sort of magic, be it traditional or inwardly-focused enhancements (think combat arts/styles). The PCs are /all/ part of the special few, if they choose to be. So we will definitely have criminals and there ARE certain magical styles and disciplines focused on people being Sol Badguy, for sure.
Dominion isn't something I have an exhaustive grasp on. To be honest, it's not my field of interest. But it will essentially be the way the leaders of Houses and Orgs (with holdings) manage those holdings. Taxes, production, espionage, trade, war, etc. There are skills that will be purchaseable for Dominion, specifically. Apos is probably way better for elaborating on that. There are some systems I feel strongly about! Dominion isn't one of them.
@Arkandel said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
After playing for a few days on Arx, some thoughts.
- I really really like its investigative/task/support system. It's pretty smart that it's built so not only are there diminishing returns to getting backing up by the same people, you can't support your own primary faction - so you can't just have a huge House circle-jerking support, as it's implied that it's a given, and all those people need to go out there and recruit others to help.
Just to clarify: you can get investigative help from your primary faction. But I think this does make sense, because it's asking individual people for their help hunting down clues (in whatever form that may take), whereas tasks/support are an organization-level thing. Definitely agree that it makes sense and is a good setup for tasks to not allow a circle of support from within the same org that it's originating from.
- I'm torn about resource management. Basically the way it works (to my understanding) is larger Houses have more money to give out but also, typically, more people. So Lord Bob of House Large can choose to share the wealth and buy everyone a small present or play favorites, buy a couple of people a Death Star and piss off the rest - plus it makes smaller, well populated Houses' players even more short on cash. That's both a good thing (since it makes sense, it's realistic and life ain't fair, plus it gives leaders meaningful choices to make) and bad (since some players will feel bad about it).
It's definitely designed to give a lot of autonomy and power to the org leaders. I run a duchy-level house (with @Meg!) and, sure, I'd love to have the income of a high house -- who wouldn't? For me, it still falls within the realms of "realistic and not maddening." I think a better perspective might be from folks in a March level house or lower who have even less money coming in.
- My main concern is the suggestion someone made that at times support is given for OOC reasons. While staff has made it clear it's not cool to apply OOC pressure ("hey, did you back me up for my zoo project yet??") there's no real way to regulate trading favors OOC without RP and without running the game as a police state - which I agree it shouldn't be. And although I've watched people get bitched at on channels by staff about trying to get favors for their alts, once again it's pretty hard to track down alt-circlejerking trading.
Yeah, that's a bit -- I'm not sure how to combat it unless it gets reported. I'm sure it happens, because the idea that it doesn't is more unrealistic to me and there's always jerks who don't care about the rules, unfortunately.
- I haven't done combat at all so far, despite playing a soldier type, so no idea how the balance works yet. I've heard some bellyaching about dino-monsters but no idea if that's true either.
There are definitely combat monsters on the game. However, I'd actually say that if you want to play a combat monster and decide to focus all your XP there, you can do a lot to catch up in your early weeks. The XP tax really slows down the ability to keep raising skills quickly. I mean, I kind of heard a little implied bellyaching about my combat-focused commoner alt maxing out his weapon skill within his first month on the game. I can also say that he's crappy at other things, and that crappiness has had a negative impact at times. (Just ask anyone who's seen me run a Perception check. He's the most oblivious guy on the game sometimes, and it's cost him successes on plot that would've translated to actual money. Which is part of the fun!) He's also in the position of not being able to afford the sort of fancy armor that rich nobles can, so that's another limitation. (I could whine about noble combat monsters with fancy armor who skip over skills nobles should probably learn even if they're not in the line of inheritance, but I have to trust that they'll probably get stuck failing etiquette checks at some point on some plot the same way I fail checks at stuff my characters aren't good at. And there's no point stressing over being the best, because that way lies madness.)
- The randomscene idea is excellent, more MU* should use it. Basically every week it generates a list of people you can RP with for extra XP and every newbie is also on that list automatically... so as soon as you get in suddenly there're a bunch of people trying to play with you for their own good. Big thumbs up for that.
I looooooove randomscene, too. And it does have a good point of diminishing returns (you're not going to get twice as much XP claiming 20 people than claiming 10).
- Getting settled into the metaplot is a bitch and a half. It's probably the worst thing about the game, at least for me, because so much has happened and it takes a lot of reading to catch up. Arx can probably really benefit from a very basic 101 page somewhere, giving the fundamental facts and nothing else but links to where you can learn more.
There is a whole lot. That's definitely true. Having been around since Alpha -- AKA before plot was actually moving forward -- I do feel rather sympathetic to people coming in now after it's all gotten started already. And the other difficulty with having a "Basic 101 Page" is sort of indicating what's public knowledge and what isn't. But -- maybe we should try it anyways, at the very least on the player wiki we have going. Just stuff that really is public knowledge (story updates, stuff that happened in big public events, etc.). I know a big problem I've witnessed newcomers talk about is coming in asking about what they should know about certain things getting discussed and the answer being "not much, you probably didn't think it existed as of yesterday."
There's also an instinct on the part of a lot of players to want to have ALL THE CLUES which is neither realistic nor a productive angle to approach the game from. It's a very natural instinct, and I've had to temper it in myself, so it's not like I don't get it. But it's probably more productive if people kind of focus in on certain topics/areas instead of worrying about what everyone else knows about other things.
- My former major concern - the lack of PrPs - doesn't apply any more. They are doable, and due to code limitations they are even light on mechanics which for me at least is the best case scenario.
But others' mileage may vary.
We've had a lot of cool PrPs, which is awesome. I'm super excited for the formal, coded PrP system. @Tehom did a great (and hilarious) summary of the current envisioning of the system.
I am very torn about resource management too. I just-- want to be rich and afford all of the nice things?? And it feels impossible to ever save up to the point of some of the stuff, especially for some of the less necessary but nice things. Like, I can afford to pay Sylvie 5,000 a week without bankrupting the house and also paying others, and at that point, it's 200 weeks before I could ever afford a steelsilk anything.
Which I get is a point, but at another it's just-- annoying. That's 4 years OOCly. Especially when other people already have all that stuff from being around early in Alpha.
I love the PrPs. They are very usable and doable and I hope a lot more people start running and having fun with it.
I think randomscene got exhausting for a bit especially when we had an influx of new players, but I think it's died down a lot and people are picking back up on mixing in randomscene with their continued stories.
I also don't think that OOC support happens that often. I think you're going to get people abusing systems when they can, but I think it's the minority.
#FreeFarfalla
@Meg said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Especially when other people already have all that stuff from being around early in Alpha.
Grandfathered perks are the worst thing in the universe.
Honestly, I'm having the same problem this time that I did my first attempt. +journal, +crisis, +this, +that, +(every fucking thing on the planet). I don't want to play a Mud.
But this time I'm pretty much resolving to ignore all the mechanics and just RP.
Yeah, the code isn't for everyone. I think you should be fine to ignore most of it -- if you do your journals on the website you even get the XP that way. I should probably engage more with tasks, but...Well, eventually.
@Meg Your 200 weeks calculation does not include weekly economic resources, so don't forget that. Even without selling to other PCs, they are 4 per 1000 silver. That helps mitigate these costs a LOT. If you do one of the big econ tasks, that's a LOT of silver for you. The bulk of my house has been contributing to this stuff, I've been pushing a lot of this sort of activity, which is why I'm not dead broke with all the stuff I have been doing.
That's true. If I was better about doing economic tasks, I could have a lot more silver, theoretically. If we assume that people could average 100 economic resources a week (which of course, some people can do more but I think that is a very generous average), you're only looking at 33 weeks.
Which seems more fair, certainly.
(Though I would like to emphasize that I think 100 economic resources a week is a VERY generous estimate. That means every week, you have to get a lot of support for econ about the pop.)
#FreeFarfalla
@Meg said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
That's true. If I was better about doing economic tasks, I could have a lot more silver, theoretically. If we assume that people could average 100 economic resources a week (which of course, some people can do more but I think that is a very generous average), you're only looking at 33 weeks.
Which seems more fair, certainly.
(Though I would like to emphasize that I think 100 economic resources a week is a VERY generous estimate. That means every week, you have to get a lot of support for econ about the pop.)
If people can get 100 economic resources (or whatever) a week the game will eventually run into a very large divide between players who can be online a lot and those who can't. Some sort of diminishing returns might be better else the gap will only grow.
Well, I certainly can't. You might be on to something there about diminishing returns. On the other hand, I'd be really annoyed to feel like I worked really hard for all my support only to get it strangled. On the other hand, as a lady with a full-time job that doesn't really allow for RP during work hours and a life and obligations, I dislike being naturally poorer than others, so. On the other hand, there is always going to be naturally some of that, where people who can RP more just get more, and I feel like I am just being whiny.
I have a lot of hands. It's because I am really two kids in a trenchcoat. That's four hands.
#FreeFarfalla
@Meg said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
Well, I certainly can't. You might be on to something there about diminishing returns. On the other hand, I'd be really annoyed to feel like I worked really hard for all my support only to get it strangled.
That's why I proposed diminishing returns and not a hard cap, though... the former still lets someone who can be online ten hours a day get something back for the extra investment, just not outrun everyone else by heaps and bounds. After all XP are already subject to diminishing returns so that's not introducing a new principle - someone who puts in a lot of work doesn't get the same returns in XP proportionately.
It's the same principle as any other score-keeping in games, right? In a MU* where XP is the only really useful 'points' you can accumulate for instance if you don't have some sort of control then you'll end up with monsters who have mastered every discipline and everyone else - especially newer players - will be unable to catch up. That's the case even if those players start playing a lot, since the gap will only be fixed instead of increasing... but they'll still be behind.
I find it frustrating to have it be implied that to be successful, you have to be online a lot, not have a life, etc. I am not successful because I have a time advantage (being on and being engaged are very different).
I delegate.
@Arkandel said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
- My main concern is the suggestion someone made that at times support is given for OOC reasons. While staff has made it clear it's not cool to apply OOC pressure ("hey, did you back me up for my zoo project yet??") there's no real way to regulate trading favors OOC without RP and without running the game as a police state - which I agree it shouldn't be. And although I've watched people get bitched at on channels by staff about trying to get favors for their alts, once again it's pretty hard to track down alt-circlejerking trading.
Yeah, I mean its a sucky situation but it will always happen. I think the OOC gag order might actually be part of the problem. I dunno. Tasks/Support feels like such a black box to me. It's something that I really, really, really want to like but in the end it just confuses me. I do wish that I knew when I got support before the task closed at the end of the week. Also, I just found out that notes and rumors are no longer required and that made me so happy!
- Getting settled into the metaplot is a bitch and a half. It's probably the worst thing about the game, at least for me, because so much has happened and it takes a lot of reading to catch up. Arx can probably really benefit from a very basic 101 page somewhere, giving the fundamental facts and nothing else but links to where you can learn more.
I think the +crisis system will help with that a lot.
@Meg said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I am very torn about resource management too. I just-- want to be rich and afford all of the nice things?? And it feels impossible to ever save up to the point of some of the stuff, especially for some of the less necessary but nice things. Like, I can afford to pay Sylvie 5,000 a week without bankrupting the house and also paying others, and at that point, it's 200 weeks before I could ever afford a steelsilk anything.
Which I get is a point, but at another it's just-- annoying. That's 4 years OOCly. Especially when other people already have all that stuff from being around early in Alpha.
Yeah, I just had a discussion with this with my house, because I feel like people should be able to afford some things, but we also shouldn't be bankrupting the house. I offered to up everyone's payments, but the feeling was that even with the upped payments no one would be able to afford anything, so we kept the payments low and ended up paying for really expensive armor out of the house account - which might be a mistake, or might be brilliant considering the current situation.
@Sunny said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I find it frustrating to have it be implied that to be successful, you have to be online a lot, not have a life, etc. I am not successful because I have a time advantage (being on and being engaged are very different).
I delegate.
In my mind my character has been incredibly successful (not in an IC power sense) and I honestly do not spend that much time. I work 55-60 hours a week. But I still get enough on Arx to feel I fit in. Sometimes the information flow is overwhelming and I feel I am lagging behind... but that is more my fault (trying to spread out) and less the game's.
@Kanye-Qwest said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
@Misadventure I'm not sure yet how it will integrate with the current game world, because it's largely player driven, and we'll have to see how PCs go about overcoming the current barriers to open, practiceable magic. the current plan is, when magic becomes a THING again, that will unlock a separate, time-gated xp flow, so you won't have anyone who saved up xp suddenly a level 6 bloodmage after two days of study. But, all PCs in Arx will have the innate ability to learn some sort of magic, be it traditional or inwardly-focused enhancements (think combat arts/styles). The PCs are /all/ part of the special few, if they choose to be. So we will definitely have criminals and there ARE certain magical styles and disciplines focused on people being Sol Badguy, for sure.
Dominion isn't something I have an exhaustive grasp on. To be honest, it's not my field of interest. But it will essentially be the way the leaders of Houses and Orgs (with holdings) manage those holdings. Taxes, production, espionage, trade, war, etc. There are skills that will be purchaseable for Dominion, specifically. Apos is probably way better for elaborating on that. There are some systems I feel strongly about! Dominion isn't one of them.
Hold up! Hold up! We're all special!? BUT THEN NO ONE IS SPECIAL!
kidding
I think this view is a really good direction. That was one of the biggest problems with Firan. No one wants to be a god damn cobbler, yet half the roster was cobblers. In Arx its very clear that a lot (every?) character has their niche and their in.
Actually, let me just come back here and say that I am sorry. I wasn't trying to imply a measure of success or failure, nor that only people who can RP a lot can succeed.
And I think that any conversation about resources or balance is a lot more nuanced and would take a much more macro look than I can see.
@FiranSurvivor I think it was more tailors and armors, or whoever else needed the skill, took cobbling so there was little point to being one. I totally woulda rolled a cobbler if I thought there was any point in it when everyone and their brother had the skill so there was not really any point in someone going to another person but their tailor.
Als.. regarding the +task stuff... I look at and have no effing clue what to do with it, so I ignore it. I'll likely just use it if someone tells me they want me too and has the patience to explain it to me,
Systems don't have to be designed such that you need to be online a lot to participate in them.
I have a waggish sense of humor.
And these systems are not.
@Sunny said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I find it frustrating to have it be implied that to be successful, you have to be online a lot, not have a life, etc. I am not successful because I have a time advantage (being on and being engaged are very different).
I delegate.
While I may be taking a short break from Arx, this is something I have felt very strongly in the time that I have been away from it. The game moves fast, almost too fast for my liking and at times it feels like there is almost a suggestion that if you don't dedicate the majority of your life to it, you're going to fall behind. And to note, I was completely one of those people who wanted 'all the clues ever' as unrealistic as that is.
Now, I know this probably isn't true at all, but the point is that it feels like it is. I'm hoping at some point the game decides to slow itself down to allow some to catch their breath, or at least feel like you're not missing out on a lot of things. It might be at the speed in which metaplot unravels, or the fact that the game moves at 3:1 time or a combination of both.
Either way, I know exactly what you're talking about. But again, even if I feel that, I don't think it's the case.
MUSH-free since 02/2017
This may or may not change in the future.
@Sunny said in Coming Soon: Arx, After the Reckoning:
I find it frustrating to have it be implied that to be successful, you have to be online a lot, not have a life, etc. I am not successful because I have a time advantage (being on and being engaged are very different).
I delegate.
It depends on what you consider success. Many crafting systems favor the people who are on more to the point where they can grossly diminish the need of another such crafter. Similar has been discussed about the problem of xp and it's curves, skills and their limited values but unlimited availability.
Playing the character you thought you were making is impacted by these. I personally didn't think that Arx was going to run into this issue, but it's come up more than once in the past dozen or so posts.
I don't know if this is what you meant, but I think most people mean success as "success in what I want to be successful at". Which is mostly about being capable or even powerful characters. Remember, a lot of us are WoDers, not L&Lers!
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos
Actually, let me just come back here and say that I am sorry. I wasn't trying to imply a measure of success or failure, nor that only people who can RP a lot can succeed.
And I think that any conversation about resources or balance is a lot more nuanced and would take a much more macro look than I can see.
