The Apology Thread

surreality · Nov 21, 2016, 8:06 PM

@mietze The only thing is, you can absolutely trip over someone's trigger and it is entirely unexpected. Most people do feel horrible about it when they do, and they don't know it's there.

Land mines are a thing. (Not a thing I think need a public airing, mind, but a thing.)

"I didn't know you have issues with <subject>, I'm really sorry that scene was upsetting for you, I won't bring up <subject> again, is there anything I can do to help?" is not shaming or mocking by a long shot, so there's not only the "Well I'm sorry you're a whiny baby made entirely out of butthurt who should grow the fuck up but I won't do that again" way of handling such a situation when it arises.

Miss Demeanor · Nov 21, 2016, 8:07 PM

@Auspice said in The Apology Thread:

There must be a post I can't see.

Because I don't see 'I'm sorry you' anywhere in his posts.

I see ones about how he's apologizing to people for how he handled things.

Can someone find the post where he says 'I'm sorry you' that Sunny and Miss-Demeanor are referencing, please? Because I can't.

Go ahead and find me the apology in his second 'apology' post. I see alot of 'I recognize' and 'I acknowledge' but no 'I'm sorry I did these things'.

Auspice · Nov 21, 2016, 8:11 PM

@Miss-Demeanor said in The Apology Thread:

@Auspice said in The Apology Thread:

There must be a post I can't see.

Because I don't see 'I'm sorry you' anywhere in his posts.

I see ones about how he's apologizing to people for how he handled things.

Can someone find the post where he says 'I'm sorry you' that Sunny and Miss-Demeanor are referencing, please? Because I can't.

Go ahead and find me the apology in his second 'apology' post. I see alot of 'I recognize' and 'I acknowledge' but no 'I'm sorry I did these things'.

'I apologize to a few players back in the day, whom I won't name specifically for their anonymity.'

'I know better now than I did years ago how personally invested some people get, and I regret that my character choosing X or Y set another living human being into that kind of headspace.'

Is it because he didn't specifically use 'I'm sorry' and instead used 'I apologize to...' and that he regrets how his actions affected others and how he's only realizing now that it did so?

Have you never days/weeks/months after the fact gone 'Shit. I didn't realize how that affected the other person. I wish I had sooner, so I didn't hurt them.'?

Misadventure · Nov 21, 2016, 8:14 PM

@Ghost said in The Apology Thread:

I apologize ...

First words.

If they are meant for you, you do not have to accept them, even if they were eloquently stated, and they weren't.

I am asking everyone to not make the mistake of declaring that no one could read anything differently from you. I am reminding people that deciding how you will see everything, and it's obvious this is happening in a few posts here, then you aren't dealing with the conversation that is happening, you are dealing with the one in your head. So you may be missing an authentic chance at something, in preference to the narrative in your head.

mietze · Nov 21, 2016, 8:31 PM

Yep, that's why I said unless you are interested in repairing/acknowledging your harm/annoyance to someone else without justification, you should wait. If your state is "sorry that I brushed up against your hypersensitivity," then it's not the apologetic one.

mietze · Nov 21, 2016, 8:34 PM

Ark, private if possible, but I think it can always be personal. Otherwise, most likely your target person(s) won't realize it (for good or ill). That's why those dumbass generic staff "reminder" posts about specific things but couched in general language never work either.

Miss Demeanor · Nov 21, 2016, 8:55 PM

@Auspice Yeah, following the 'I apologize' was three paragraphs of 'gee, I didn't realize... only I did and purposely shut off empathy for them, and I acknowledge that they saw things differently than me'... in other words, everything after the 'I apologize' was worded in a way that completely neutralized any actual apology. He continued to imply that it was someone else's fault for taking what he was doing the wrong way, rather than any wrong-doing on his own part.

And yes, I have. You know what I did? Found them a few months later and said 'I'm sorry that I ditched you back then. It was a dick move.' I didn't spend three paragraphs talking about how I didn't realize what I was doing... only I really did and took deliberate steps to not care about the hurt I was causing and now I regret doing it because they took it badly.

Here, since we're quoting him...

I realize due to OOC issues, angry pages, etc, that it wasn't JUST a game for you. (Implication that being upset with him means the other person was taking it unreasonably far.)

going through whatever kinds of shit that led you to get triggered. (There's no ownership there. He takes no responsibility for his own actions.)

For whatever reason the hurt existed, (Same as above. No ownership, just some ephemeral 'whatever reason'.)

but it doesn't matter how justified the hurt on your end was (Do I even really need to explain this? Its completely downplaying the other person's feelings in favor of his... redemption? Growth? Regret?)

I regret that my character choosing X or Y set another living human being into that kind of headspace (He is responsible for his character. He made those choices, not his character. He's shifting blame from himself as a player to his character, like it was operating independently of him.)

I went "fuck their moody shit" and turned off the empathy (Meaning, he had full understanding, where a paragraph ago, he claimed to not understand 'back then' what was happening. Can't keep your story straight? Sounds like someone is lying.)

it might be one of the most soul-rewarding experiences I'm taking away from it. (Apologies shouldn't be about him and how he feels, but rather about making the other person feel better for his previous treatment. Which again, suggests less sincerity and more just wanting to make himself feel better.)

Bolded the parts that particularly stuck out in those statements. Everything put together shows the sort of lackluster, couched non-apology that is made to clear one's own conscience or garner sympathy/kudos from others rather than to actually make things better between him and the people he wronged.

tldr; If the apology is more about someone else taking things badly and how much better you feel about it all? Not a real apology.

Misadventure · Nov 21, 2016, 9:25 PM

Were you triggered?

Miss Demeanor · Nov 21, 2016, 10:01 PM

@Misadventure I'm not a millennial pansy that needs a 'safe space' from 'scary words', so no.

Misadventure · Nov 21, 2016, 10:04 PM

I'm going to skip the insulting attitude towards people who might have actual trigger worthy experience and ask, what was the issue that was so upsetting?

Was it that he wouldn't talk about it? Or was there something about the topic? Or was it the reversal? And did we talk about this? I swear someone mentioned something like this, specifically the complaining about their chosen path. What was the biggest thing?

Cobalt · Nov 21, 2016, 10:06 PM

MUSoapbox; Where we argue over apologies.

Arkandel · Nov 21, 2016, 10:15 PM

Here's something to debate since we're into that.

We've had a big argument and you told me to fuck off and never contact you again!

Then I go and post an apology thread here addressing it to whom it may concern.

Is that okay or am I being a douche?

Roz · Nov 21, 2016, 10:16 PM

@Arkandel said in The Apology Thread:

Here's something to debate since we're into that.

We've had a big argument and you told me to fuck off and never contact you again!

Then I go and post an apology thread here addressing it to whom it may concern.

Is that okay or am I being a douche?

Douche.

Kanye Qwest · Nov 21, 2016, 10:19 PM

@Arkandel said in The Apology Thread:

Here's something to debate since we're into that.

We've had a big argument and you told me to fuck off and never contact you again!

Then I go and post an apology thread here addressing it to whom it may concern.

Is that okay or am I being a douche?

Douche!

Oh wait. let me read the situation you actually posited.

Douche! Huh, I mean that's fine. My instinct is to be rude.

Auspice · Nov 21, 2016, 10:26 PM

@Arkandel

Honestly, I'm in a similar boat. I had something happen the other day that led me to understanding someone. I'd previously brushed off an issue they'd had and it wasn't done out of cruelty or anything, but because I honestly couldn't understand where they were coming from. Now I do and I'm... not sure how to apologize, though I wish I could. $:\$

Arkandel · Nov 21, 2016, 10:28 PM

@Auspice Oh there's no boat in my case, it was a theoretical scenario. AFAIK no one has told me to never talk to them again.

... if they did, sorry! This is even the right place for the apology.

Miss Demeanor · Nov 21, 2016, 10:28 PM

None of the above. Its that he didn't really believe that 'IC was IC' and that OOC communication was a bad thing. He would express frustrations to me about the player of the character his was ICly pursuing wouldn't 'communicate' with him OOCly about how their IC relationship was going... while at the same time telling me that he 'doesn't talk OOCly about the direction his character is taking and leaves it all to IC'. Clearly he didn't, or he wouldn't have been trying so hard to communicate with someone else OOCly about their IC relationship. His saying 'I keep the IC in IC' is just his way of stringing people along until he's done with them, then getting all huffy and affronted when they express anger and frustration with him.

In short, he acted like Spider. He manipulated and played people, then cast them aside when he was done, and worse, treated them like they were the mean ones for getting upset about it. His apologies were never apologies, they were 'I'm sorry you took things so badly'. Because apparently treating people in a way that he himself doesn't like, is not his fault. Its theirs, for being too sensitive, or taking the game too seriously, or having other unspoken issues that made them feel that way.

Misadventure · Nov 21, 2016, 10:34 PM

@Arkandel Douche.

Unless there were others who cannot be reached otherwise.

Because I would love a post that started with

"Anyone who knew Ambrose@Place, EXCEPT Ambrose, I'd like to apologize for the drama surrounding blah blah blah etc"

Miss Demeanor · Nov 21, 2016, 10:41 PM

@Arkandel As long as you're saying "I'm sorry I..." and not, "I'm sorry you..." I would say its all good. But maybe let some time pass first? Sometimes 'never contact me again' can change after a few days.

surreality · Nov 22, 2016, 1:41 AM

@Miss-Demeanor said in The Apology Thread:

@Misadventure I'm not a millennial pansy that needs a 'safe space' from 'scary words', so no.

Yeah, sorry... I have to agree with @Misadventure on this one, the dismissiveness here is a bit much.

PTSD is a real thing, and if people could control what sets it off, I'm pretty sure 'those millennial pansies' be much happier about it than the people who are in proximity when it's set off and feel the need to look down on them for having a delayed emotional reaction to trauma.