Classic World of Darkness

[ThatGuyThere]

Question: if you don't want cross over why include both games? This leads ties into player base split issue I mentioned in regard to multiple cities. How is 30 people on a game only 10 that a PC can interact with any different from just having a 10 person game?
An unrelated question about mortals, would they be allowed to move between cities or would they app in with the condition of being tied to one city or another?

[SunnyJ]

@ThatGuyThere Alts. 30 people can have 3 characters each, and if something isn't happening in Wolf Town, they can maybe find a scene in Vamp Town.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@ThatGuyThere

Great questions...

• First question. Why? Because I want to. I know it sounds stupid but really that's meat and potatoes of it. However, the idea is that hopefully players will want to app into other spheres of interest solely because they like the feel of the game, being part of a bigger world. While the events will not spill over for PCs, NPCs will carry information from once city to another. If the Vampires eradicate all the NPC wolves in their city, the Wolf City will hear about it and vice versa. The goal of the city is to focus on a single sphere of RP while being part of a bigger picture. At least that's my hope. If it fails, it fails and we might opt to integrate.
• Vanilla Mortals will probably not be limited by the city. They will be able to cross into another city with relative ease. However, Mortal+ (Ghouls, Kinfolk, etc) won't be able to cross that barrier. Also keep in mind that if you're a mortal, you will probably have to make arrangements to travel. The plan is for he cities to not be geographically close. New York, San Fran, Dallas, for examples (Note we aren't going to use those cities, most likely, but that gives the image.)
• Also, Alts as Sunnyj mentioned. Players can app alts into the various Cities and play.

[ThatGuyThere]

@SunnyJ said in Classic World of Darkness:

@ThatGuyThere Alts. 30 people can have 3 characters each, and if something isn't happening in Wolf Town, they can maybe find a scene in Vamp Town.

Not all players will make all possible alts, many prefer fewer characters for management reasons others because of a dislike for one sphere.
While I definitely agree that allowing those who want to do so, I would not assume all would.

[Jennkryst]

If there are NPC (sphere 1) in PC (Sphere 2)'s city... WHY NOT JUST ALLOW PC (sphere 1) IN THE CITY? This is making a complicated extra step.

Else a player can be friendly with the NPCs of a sphere, but never the PCs of a sphere, until season finale/crossover special.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Jennkryst said in Classic World of Darkness:

If there are NPC (sphere 1) in PC (Sphere 2)'s city... WHY NOT JUST ALLOW PC (sphere 1) IN THE CITY? This is making a complicated extra step.

Else a player can be friendly with the NPCs of a sphere, but never the PCs of a sphere, until season finale/crossover special.

A Fair point. I counter with only 2 reasons. A) Each city will feel more like a single sphere game, focusing on the supernatural race that inhabits it. The stories will be geared solely to cater to that supernatural race and its add-on templates (Ghoul, Kinfolk, Mortal, etc). Where as in a multi-sphere city, you have to deal with stepping on territory issues. If you want to do X it might interact with the wolves in a way their wizard does not want. B) Because that's what we want. Stupidly honest, but yeah I said it.

[Jennkryst]

@Seamus said in Classic World of Darkness:

A) [stuff] Where as in a multi-sphere city, you have to deal with stepping on territory issues.

Except you have said there are NPCs of another sphere in the city. Territory issues will happen anyway.

B) Because that's what we want. Stupidly honest, but yeah I said it.

Sounds ridiculously Kafkaesque. Since we're being stupidly honest.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Jennkryst said in Classic World of Darkness:

@Seamus said in Classic World of Darkness:

A) [stuff] Where as in a multi-sphere city, you have to deal with stepping on territory issues.

Except you have said there are NPCs of another sphere in the city. Territory issues will happen anyway.

B) Because that's what we want. Stupidly honest, but yeah I said it.

Sounds ridiculously Kafkaesque. Since we're being stupidly honest.

A) The conflict, however, resides exclusively within a single wizard's domain versus dealing with say both Vampire and Werewolf Wizards. That's the difference. You do not have two conflicting plot lines striking against each other. You have a single plot line with a single controlling staff.

B) So, because I do not want to build a game with a single Mutli-Sphere or multiple Multi-sphere cities, because you think that's what is best, I'm being nightmarish oppressive? If that/s what you want, more power to you. I wish you the best of luck with building your own game. But that's not what is happening here. It's not oppressive, it's the setting and design we have discussed.

[Jennkryst]

I was going more for nightmarishly convoluted, but we can go oppressive, too. Since you are obstructing PC agency to buy a plane ticket on their own and just fly from not-Dallas to not-New York.

[kitteh]

While I love the idea of the old school game and some big, iconic city locations, the forcible division of areas/spheres sounds... reeeeeally weird and probably like it's not going to work out great.

[ZekeTheG33k]

@Jennkryst said in Classic World of Darkness:

I was going more for nightmarishly convoluted, but we can go oppressive, too. Since you are obstructing PC agency to buy a plane ticket on their own and just fly from not-Dallas to not-New York.

Fair enough. But Most games, even without extra cities, that's not an option realistically, unless you do it via a Temporary RP room.

@kitteh said in Classic World of Darkness:

While I love the idea of the old school game and some big, iconic city locations, the forcible division of areas/spheres sounds... reeeeeally weird and probably like it's not going to work out great.

I can hope that's not the case, but if it is, it's not really a total loss. Sphere integration would be relatively painless, if that's what is desired by the Game Coordinators.

[Bobotron]

So I've read the thread, and I feel like I should add my two cents.

@ThatGuyThere
Re: Why separate cities
No one will know until it's tried. But honestly, everything else is either:

• Run a single-sphere game. The last three of these tanked because ZOMG WHERE IS ALL THE THINGS?!
• Run a multi-sphere game with no focus. CONGRATS YOU HAVE CITY OF HOPE.
• Try to run a multi-sphere game that has coherent theme, focus, and plots specifically for each of the supernaturals. This will end up turning to CoH because you can't maintain focus when Busty McVamplass is bumping uglies with a Hugelarge McWolfman and Hugelarge is buddies OOC with Marty McMageguy.

Re: Why include stuff if you don't want crossover
Each game has a theme. There is no game existing out there for OWOD right now that isn't a sandbox or something dead in the water, that maintains theme cohesion. @Seamus would like to try to do that, while also allowing some cross-over in ways that make the game more fun. I'm all for fun, and trying something new.

@Seamus stated one of his goals was to create something with focus, an the OWoD crowd, as much as some of them scream about wanting something a lot, don't seem to ACTUALLY want that.

Re: Characters in all venues
I don't think the assumption is that everyone will, but I, personally, think there's enough draw for it. CoH has tons of people who play in, what, twelve venues? Two or three (starting out) is something easy peasy, and taking the ones that people are most passionate about... and if it tanks, then integration can happen.

There was also some discussion last night of Extras/Rentables, in the vein of F&L's Guest Stars, which were mentioned as CG-to-mid-level 'temporary' PCs that people can grab in another sphere, and potentially upgrade into regular PCs should something tickle your fancy.

It's something different, at least, rather than just a copy-paste ALL THE THINGS by Night game.

@Jennkryst
Re: City Divisions
During discussion last night, it was discussed that 'each city was an island to itself,' with other supernaturals existing on the peripheral, and not the focus. Sure, the Gangrel may run into the werewolves... but it's not going to be 'SUDDENLY THE ENTIRE WEREWOLF VENUE SHOWS UP AT ELYSIUM' and such.

Re: Vampires hanging around the sept
Oh yes, because WoD MU*ers are notoriously hardassed for adhering to theme 100% of the time.

Re: Big Plots
The implied goal here is that there'd be REASONS for cooperation. I know exactly how I'd utilize things and create feeder ideas/seeds to help with the cross-venue interaction, for example. And this also implies cooperation on an OOC level between the sphere wizzen in order to make it work. Which I guess, is tantamount to blasphemy on WoD games, right?

Re: NPCs vs. PCs
Not necessarily. The NPCs are there as extras, set dressing, etc. They're there to be there IF NEEDED, for plots and such. It's not meant to be a focus, it's stuff going on in the background. And territory issues would come up assuming the ST of that venue, and the players of that venue, want it to be a thing to play out.

Honestly, it sounds like no one actually wants something different. Everyone wants a Generic City by Night game again. For like the umpteenth time.

[Runescryer]

The idea of having separate cities isn't a terrible one, and doesn't necessarily have to block player agency. Many metropolitan areas have several cities linked that each have their own 'feel' to them. For example, the San Francisco Bay Area (I know this isn't the 'official' WoD set-up, but it's how I viewed it in my TT campaigns)....

San Francisco: Major city in the area, center of financial and political power. Major Camarilla presence, light presence of Glass Walkers and Bone Gnawers, scattered Mages and possibly Changelings

Oakland: Industrial, rough and tumble. Sabbat stronghold, scattered woods & hills for Garou and/or changelings

Hayward/East Bay: Light residential (comparatively), lots of hills and forests and parks, Garou territory

San Jose/South Bay: Center of technological and biotech innovation: Technocracy turf with Tradition Mage cells

Berkeley: Changelings

West Bay/Pennensula: Scattered small cities along with lots of coastal wilderness. More Garou and other shifters.

You have a couple cities/'neighborhoods', all linked. Each one has a specific concentration of sphere, with the possibility of a few scattered members of other spheres.Each one has it's own feel, style, theme, but there's also a certain potential for limited interaction between spheres.

Just my 2 cents here.

[ThatGuyThere]

@Bobotron said in Classic World of Darkness:

@ThatGuyThere
Re: Why separate cities
No one will know until it's tried.

I am not saying not to try it, but to have a plan in place to mitigate the dilution of the player base, right now the plan seem to be people will make alts. that might happen that might not.
It is not like games with segregated areas are new, look at pretty much every space game, you tend to run into either a crap ton of thumb twiddling while nothing happens on the planet you are stuck on or transportation gets handwaved to ridiculousness.

Right now the best thing to app would be an resources five mortal cause they are the only thing with the ability to get to where the rp is.

[DarkDeleria]

@Seamus said in Classic World of Darkness:

I'm curious is there any interest in the 20th Ed oWoD mush?

I am totally interested in this. Just got 20th Ed. CtD .pdf. Buuuuuut...the only thing that might keep me from this is that I don't wanna go back to the brutal XP costs from oWoD games versus nWoD. -_-

[Bobotron]

@DarkDeleria

Brutal XP costs? It's not much different from NWoD 1e. OWoD XP Costs are actually cheaper than NWoD 1e. I assume you're talking about NWoD 2e where they're flat costs (but really, multiplied by 5 'cause of beats).

[DarkDeleria]

@Bobotron said in Classic World of Darkness:

@DarkDeleria

Brutal XP costs? It's not much different from NWoD 1e. OWoD XP Costs are actually cheaper than NWoD 1e. I assume you're talking about NWoD 2e where they're flat costs (but really, multiplied by 5 'cause of beats).

Yeah. Maybe I shouldn't have overexaggerated the difference in XP systems. I just liked the conversion of doing a Flat Costs per dot. Plus the ability to purchase more Merits dots beyond the 7 that you started off with (unless this was changed in 20th, as I'm unable to recall at this moment)

[Jennkryst]

Thread necro to see if this puttered off into nothingness or what.