Make MSB great again!

[Auspice]

@lotherio said in Make MSB great again!:

Maybe the wrong thread for it, I'm over wrong fun arguments though.

Part of the issue is how quickly people accuse something of 'wrong fun.' It's become methodology to shut down an argument they don't like.

'How dare you play <role>.' - 'wrong fun'ing someone (lord do I hate the term; we need something better)

'If you're using X setting for a game, I'd suggest taking out Y because Y ruins it for MU*ing.' - opinion/advice, doesn't mean someone has to take it

The latter has led to arguments, yes, and it will. No more or less than bar debates on sports, movies, etc.. But with the psuedo-anonymity of the forums and the fact that people feel like they vs. their opinion are being attacked... the 'wrong fun' comes out as a way to lash back at the person who said it vs. just going 'Alright, well, I personally don't think Y will be an issue.'

It's human nature to get worked up over things you feel, personally, to be important. But I think we all have it in us to just walk away or at least express our disappointment in more light-hearted or polite ways.

Because seriously guys, every time you declare you're 'done with this discussion' (or variants thereof), WTFE has to buy more alcohol.

[Lotherio]

@auspice said in Make MSB great again!:

WTFE has to buy more alcohol

Someone has to support the spirit business. With beer sales down (.6 percent worldwide, 1.8 percent in the US), and spirits in general only at a .3 percent growth rate compared to a consumption growth rate of 3.6. Someone has to keep the industries alive. This could be fake news, its just the first quick find on a stat showing a decline in the sale of some alcohol.

[Ganymede]

@lotherio

Cynically, heroin's cheaper than getting knocked out on hooch.

[TNP]

@Tempest If I recall right, @paris accused @Cupcake of stalking as well as lots of other things up to and including the assassination of JFK. After being told he was wrong on at least several issues, he just handwaved it all away and kept on going. Take it as you will.

[Prototart]

@paris said in Make MSB great again!:

@arkandel This site enables harassment.

alt take:

this site is one of the only places some people feel like they're able to safely speak up about the abuse they witness or are subject to

[ThatGuyThere]

@faraday said in Make MSB great again!:

I remember the last time a thread like this was posted, I was ridiculed for suggesting that discussions should be less negative. Because apparently "civil discourse" equates to "singing kumbaya" in many peoples' minds.

Except a section when criticism is not allowed as the current rules of the ad thread state is not discourse civil or otherwise it is a commercial followed by a pep rally.
People saying something is good while they are not allowed to say something is bad is utterly pointless.

[Wizz]

@thatguythere said in Make MSB great again!:

People saying something is good while they are not allowed to say something is bad is utterly pointless.

Advertisement board's rules:

This is not the place to criticise or attack either those games or their runners. If there isn't already a thread in the Mildly Constrictive or Hogpit sections for them then please feel free to start one, and we will link between them for easy access (but check first!).

That's a misreading, dude.

[faraday]

@thatguythere said in Make MSB great again!:

Except a section when criticism is not allowed as the current rules of the ad thread state is not discourse civil or otherwise it is a commercial followed by a pep rally.

That wasn't at all what I was talking about, if you read my comment again.

And if you read my other comments about the ad thread, you'll see that I agree with you. I suggested having just one "Game" thread for civil ad/q&a/reviews/feedback all together.

[ThatGuyThere]

@wizz
Not to me, if the most negative thing allowed is a not saying hey you can read bad things here then the discussion is pointless to me.
I see that as no different than the lets all feel good pep rallies I had to sit through in middle and High school and some of the worse jobs I have had in the past.

[Ganymede]

@thatguythere said in Make MSB great again!:

I see that as no different than the lets all feel good pep rallies I had to sit through in middle and High school and some of the worse jobs I have had in the past.

The difference is that no one is forcing you to attend.

A more appropriate way to look at the situation is whether you think it's okay for someone to come by your locker, smear shit on it, and then piss into those vents at the top and bottom. If people want to leave positive post-it notes or tape birthday candy to it, so be it.

[ThatGuyThere]

@ganymede
True enough but thankfully the rules still allow me to say I think it is a stupid idea for as long as the discussion persists.

[Wizz]

@faraday said in Make MSB great again!:

@thatguythere said in Make MSB great again!:

Except a section when criticism is not allowed as the current rules of the ad thread state is not discourse civil or otherwise it is a commercial followed by a pep rally.

That wasn't at all what I was talking about, if you read my comment again.

And if you read my other comments about the ad thread, you'll see that I agree with you. I suggested having just one "Game" thread for civil ad/q&a/reviews/feedback all together.

I think starting a little more cautiously like we are is a good idea, and if it starts to seem kind of redundant to have a separate Constructive thread I'd also be on board with them being merged. I think we've all just reached the point of exhaustion with people immediately leaping into the "IT'S TIME TO EXPOSE YOU FOR THE PIECE OF SHIT YOU TRULY ARE!!!!!!" stage of discussion.

[Kanye Qwest]

I don't know, maybe all three board moderators don't need to move/comment on moving a totally benign post? Like, great enthusiasm but also maybe overkill.

[Lithium]

I just wanted to know how it was constructive... I made no demands to it being moved.

[Ganymede]

@kanye-qwest said in Make MSB great again!:

I don't know, maybe all three board moderators don't need to move/comment on moving a totally benign post? Like, great enthusiasm but also maybe overkill.

In my defense, work is really annoying today, and I'm trying to ignore it.

[Kanye Qwest]

@ganymede That's cool (I mean it's not, boo work) and no one really needs to DEFEND themselves, but there's nearly as much commentary about moving the harmless thread where it belongs as there is actual thread commentary. Seems a little derailing.

[Arkandel]

@kanye-qwest We're new to this! We'll work it out.

[Thenomain]

@wizz said in Make MSB great again!:

@thatguythere said in Make MSB great again!:

People saying something is good while they are not allowed to say something is bad is utterly pointless.

Advertisement board's rules:

This is not the place to criticise or attack either those games or their runners. If there isn't already a thread in the Mildly Constrictive or Hogpit sections for them then please feel free to start one, and we will link between them for easy access (but check first!).

That's a misreading, dude.

Is it? Because that’s how I read it. “Criticism” does not mean “not constructive” and it certainly doesn’t mean “attack”.

We have had many, many staffers who’ve taken anything less than kid-glove or glad-handing as an insult. I posit that those people are just as non-constructive as the out and out insults, but because they’re the defender in the case it’s more often and easier to forgive.

This is mostly why I think it’s better to have the advert thread as being only advertisement information, and any commentary about the game, good or ill, in a separate thread. It doesn’t have to be locked, but if it’s not updates or events or the like, it doesn’t belong in the main advert.

The more I ponder this, the more passionate I feel about my position.

[Wizz]

@thenomain said in Make MSB great again!:

Is it? Because that’s how I read it.

Yeah, it is, because he was suggesting that the criticism (constructive or otherwise) isn't allowed because it...happens in another thread. He compares this to a pep rally, for...some reason. The criticism isn't behind any sort of wall, it's just somewhere else which is not opt-in and is visible to everyone by default. No one is forcing you to be supportive or to post positive things in the advertisement thread, you literally just click into the other board. Why two clicks instead of one is such a massive downer or some sort of forced positivity to some people continues to seem incredibly silly to me and proof that there really was a problem here.

[Tat]

This is not about tone, but about accessibility to casual MSBers or perhaps (if they exist!) potential newcomers.

One of the most difficult things for me, as someone who swoops in and out of MSB as time and interest allows, is that threads are allowed to grow to GIGANTIC proportions - even when the topic has clearly changed. There is no start or end point, no point at which I can clearly jump in. I have to just click a page and hope I'm where something will make sense.

I know that there are threads where this makes more sense than others, but I think it's also really worthwhile to sort of 'reboot' a thread (you can always link to a previous one to preserve the history) if it's been idle awhile and you're coming back to it to re-start discussion, as on a game or about a person.

It is super intimidating to click on my unreads and see that threads are hundreds of pages - or even dozens, in some cases - deep.