Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?

Rook

RE: Descs
I commonly write a desc about details, not clothing. Height, weight, general build, characteristics of hair, face, any distinguishing marks... that sort of thing. I will touch on basic clothing, to give a general idea of what type of clothing that the character wears, but otherwise I pose my clothing in the scene set if I think that it is important.

Most people that I see nowadays just skim descs, searching for the details. You can tell this because if suddenly your clothing is important to bring up in the scene, ICly, they will 'look' at you quickly to see what you're wearing.

WildBaboons

I hate writing descs. I have a bank of 3 I've just rotated through all of my characters everywhere I've played in the last several years. Sometimes alts on the same game will have the same desc, maybe I'll change the hair color. I would try to avoid just having a URL or link to a photo as a desc though so that occasionally blind MU*er still has some idea of what's going on.

Tempest

Yeah, I usually cover the details in paragraph 1 and then paragraph 2 is quite often just "She tends towards casual attire like jeans and t-shirts."

Every once in a while, even to this day, I still get 'inspired' to write some big 3+ paragraph monstrosity, but some days I have a hard time getting motivated at all and just want to put "She looks something like this <insert link>."

ThatGuyThere

I am scared, I desc pretty much the same as Tempest.
Paragraph one is always the pretty much unchanging stuff; height, build, hair color, eyes etc
Paragraph two is clothes. I do one general that over time slowly add others as scenes require.
Though for the most part people do not read descs unless prompted. I have been asked what i have been wearing in scenes before since it is not something I normally pose unless it is effecting the action of the pose my normal response it, "it's in the desc." then you get the cascade of x looked at yous.
I also tend to look at everyone as I enter a scene because I am old and set in my ways.

Arkandel

@tempest I don't think I've written a new description in at least a couple of years. I recycle a lot of material.

The reason for it is that, typically, no one looks at you any more. They just check the wiki. It's nearly wasted effort, especially if you plan to change the description based on the circumstances - plus I pose my characters' attires every time anyhow.

Thenomain

Well let's examine why people don't look at characters any more.

(Pun not intended, but I left it in when I noticed.)

It's because we, the general "we", pose longer and more descriptive than we have before. Sure some people were always excited to pose 2 paragraphs, but now we get our outfits, mood, accent, and body language as they happen, sometimes repeated when new people enter the scene. I wouldn't be surprised if on the whole we write more than when we had more rotating descs.

I am very bad at scene-sets, but love the touches that I can and other people add throughout whatever situation the scene is about. I know that I'm probably tapped for ideas when I stop.

surreality

@thenomain Not gonna lie, I kinda love quite long scenesets sometimes. If it's a case of SSDD, it's not needed, but for unique locations or unusual events going on, they're great for not just giving folks a solid idea of what's going on at scene start, but often mood, feel, etc. as well in the way it's written.

Ganymede

@thenomain

In my case, I basically play actively on one game, and, on that game, everyone wears a uniform.

So, depending on which alt I'm using, you get your choice of Felicity Jones in a uniform or Ashley Johnson in a uniform.

My life is boring.

Templari

@thatguythere I do the same thing with multidescer. Basic is just that, the unchanging things in a paragraph. Then I'd build on that for individual looks. Work, Shorts, Suit, etc etc.

I still try to look at everyone because, I too am old and set in my way, and wish the kids would get off my lawn. I used to actually keep a file per game, with descs and names. Mostly to remember who was who, including noting if the charname wasn't the name given me (PC Blake, Introduced himself as Ghost Dog), etc. Sometimes adding what and where met.

faraday

@thenomain said in Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?:

Well let's examine why people don't look at characters any more.

For me it's three things:

PBs. You're Chris Hemsworth. Got it. I don't give a crap what you're wearing unless you're streaking through downtown or wearing something ridiculous, in which case I would expect you to note that in your set pose.
Better Set Poses. As you described, people tend to throw that stuff into their set poses now. Because nobody read descs, or just a natural evolution of the genre? Who knows. But it's a thing, and it largely makes descs superfluous.
I am not a desc person. You can talk all day long about your chiseled jaw or ruddy complexion and my brain still has only the vaguest clue what you actually look like. I get just as much from +glance showing hair/build/eyes as I do from a desc, and it's way easier to read. So descs, to me, are 100% useless.

Lithium

@faraday said in Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?:

Better Set Poses. As you described, people tend to throw that stuff into their set poses now. Because nobody read descs, or just a natural evolution of the genre? Who knows. But it's a thing, and it largely makes descs superfluous.

Problem with this is that you then have people who come in not knowing diddly about what everyone's wearing or general appearance is.

faraday

@lithium said in Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?:

Problem with this is that you then have people who come in not knowing diddly about what everyone's wearing or general appearance is.

Repose systems solve that handily. Or so do re-sets for new arrivals.

Side note: I'm not convinced that people ever used descs as much as we'd like to believe, even back in the "good ol' days". I've had an @adesc on every character I've ever played, and it didn't get triggered as much as I would expect, even way back when. So I think these alternatives have filled a void that was always there to some extent.

Lithium

@faraday Some of us, who read descs religiously, would like to @pemit ourselves or use think code (if penn) to read descs without triggering @adescs cuz we didn't want to spam them, that and some people new to the hobby would react to an (ETC:) @adesc like we were ICly staring at them or something.

Autumn

@thenomain One other possible contributing reason:

We started writing longer descs, and people aren't willing to read them.

I still have some descriptions I wrote in 1992 or thereabouts, and when I went back to look at them the first thing I noticed is just how short they are compared to those I've seen (or, hell, written) lately. The first one I checked was eight lines long, or a little less than a third of a vt100 screen, which I think is a pretty reasonable length to ask someone to read -- maybe a little wordy, but I wouldn't feel too put-upon if someone's desc was that long. The fashion since then seems to have turned toward much longer descriptions. And who has time to read that much for every character you meet? I have clung tenaciously to "a single vt100 screen" as my measure of the maximum practical description size, but if I'm being honest, I'm reluctant to read even that much. And plenty of people were writing them a lot longer than that. I don't think I'm alone in not wanting to wade through 5-6 paragraphs of lushly detailed purple prose just to figure out what kind of clothes someone's wearing.

Along those lines, I suspect that having short-descs show up in +glance, and later in default room views, probably contributed, too. If memory serves that practice got started around the time people started going way overboard on their descriptions, and I doubt if that was a coincidence.

faraday

@lithium That's fine. I'm not trying to knock people who read descs here, not at all. I'm just explaining why I personally don't need them and don't feel bad for not using them.

Lithium

@autumn I used to try to keep my descs under 22 lines, because I didn't want it to scroll off a standard resolution screen. My descriptions have actually gotten shorter over the years, rather than longer, because I recognized a lot of superfluous prose that wasn't necessary or even helpful.

faraday

One other random thought... If we take a step back and ask ourselves what purpose does a desc serve?

For me, the purpose is to help others visualize my character. And frankly: "Jessica Chastain in a flight suit" helps a thousand percent more than anything I could ever write.

But I think other folks would view the purpose as secondary. They would see descs as a form of creative expression. A place to stretch one's prose. And they want more than just the bare-bones facts of hair, features, clothes.

Neither is right or wrong, better or worse, it's just different preferences.

Thenomain

@faraday said in Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?:

Side note: I'm not convinced that people ever used descs as much as we'd like to believe, even back in the "good ol' days". I've had an @adesc on every character I've ever played, and it didn't get triggered as much as I would expect, even way back when. So I think these alternatives have filled a void that was always there to some extent.

I've set a desc notification as soon as I discovered @adesc and back in the day it would be triggered at least once per scene. There were two types of people: People who would look as soon as you entered, and people who would look after you posed something even slightly controversial.

Nowadays I see it get triggered a little under once per pose-in.

--

@autumn said in Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?:

@thenomain One other possible contributing reason:

We started writing longer descs, and people aren't willing to read them.

I don't buy this one. The extensive two-paragraph-desc has been around since the DarkMetal or Paris:FdM days, with it not being uncommon to see it even longer. This was along with multidescers and man, people have always lo-o-ooooved to write!

In a hobby about writing, I can't consider this strange, and that's why I don't buy it.

Along those lines, I suspect that having short-descs show up in +glance, and later in default room views, probably contributed, too.

I will, however, buy this one, even at full price. I'd be tempted to buy one for a friend.

Autumn

@thenomain said in Character Information: Wiki or Mu*?

I don't buy this one. The extensive two-paragraph-desc has been around since the DarkMetal or Paris:FdM days, with it not being uncommon to see it even longer. This was along with multidescers and man, people have always lo-o-ooooved to write!

Admittedly, that average desc length gradually increased up until the PB era is just my subjective impression. Fortunately, I have some logs from the same game over a 12-year period within that timeframe, so I can mine them for data on whether my subjective impression has any rational basis or not! Expect a follow-up one of these years.

Thenomain

@autumn

Let me go in my past 23 years of logs and...
... wait, I don't log.

... wait, I know that this entire preference discussion is based on faulty memories and logic.

... wait, I've been busy with this insanity:

***demon code***

click to show

&pledge.type.vow [v( d.pb )]=Vow
&pledge.type.oath [v( d.pb )]=
  True Name, Obscured|
  True Name, Unsullied|
  Keeper's Name|
  Higher Power
&pledge.type.corporal [v( d.pb )]=
  Mortal Emblem|
  Seeming Emblem|
  Courtly Emblem|
  Title Emblem|
  Nemesis Pledge

&f.name-completion-in-attributes me=
    first( graball( |[sort( get( v( d.pb )/%0 ), i, | )], %1*, | ), | )

// what is the first match for element named "t" and which attribute is it on? 
think 
    strcat( 
        setq( e, 
            first( 
                sort( 
                    crumple( 
                        iter( lattr( v( d.pb )/pledge.type.* ), 
                            u( f.name-completion-in-attributes, %i0, t ), 
                            , | 
                        ), 
                        | 
                    ), 
                    i, | 
                ), 
                | 
            )
        ), 
        setq( a, 
            if( strlen( %qe ), 
                titlestr( 
                    edit( 
                        grepi( 
                            v( d.pb ), 
                            pledge.type.*, 
                            %qe 
                        ), 
                        PLEDGE.TYPE., , 
                        _, %b 
                    )
                )
            )
        ), 
        %qa`%qe 
    )

(result): Corporal`Title Emblem

*Why am I not coding this around SQL lookup tables?!* 
(Because not everyone's games have SQL access set up.)

(many, many edits as I work out very slightly better ways to do this, and fix logic gaps, and nnnngh)