Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.

Tinuviel · Dec 22, 2019, 8:23 AM

@Derp said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

then you have still willingly made a choice to provide deceptive information

Not so. You have willingly made a choice to provide inaccurate information. If it is reasonable for a person to assume their information is accurate, it is also reasonable for them to express such information. They can still be wrong, but that is not the same as a willful telling of an untruth.

Being wrong is perhaps negligence, being willfully untruthful is lying.

Ghost · Dec 22, 2019, 12:28 PM

@Tinuviel Points to you. I think textbook definition, as you just described, answers this one.

Being wrong is not the same as lying, because a lie is a purposeful deception and being wrong is simply "inaccurately believing something to be true".

I mean, I suppose you could go with the definition of "wrong" as an adjective (e.x. "what you are doing is wrong"), which telling a lie IS considered to be wrong most of the time, but even then wrong is subjective. I told my SO I spent only X on her for Christmas, but I ending up getting a few extra things for her later on. Lie = Wrong? Eh.

Tinuviel · Dec 22, 2019, 12:32 PM

@Ghost I mean even when you're using wrong as an adjective you still get being wrong versus doing wrong. Doing something requires intent, and what that intent actually is matters. If you intend on simply conveying information, and that information turns out to be incorrect, then you were incorrect. If you intend on being deceptive when conveying information, then you are lying.

It's honestly not that difficult, and we're not really arguing ethics or morality. We're simply talking about what words actually mean.

Ghost · Dec 22, 2019, 12:32 PM

FML.

I'm discussing the different between LIE and WRONG on an internet forum, in bed, at 530am.

Tinuviel · Dec 22, 2019, 12:33 PM

@Ghost With a linguist/English teacher and a bunch of lawyers. Intentionally.

Ghost · Dec 22, 2019, 12:46 PM

@Tinuviel I knoooooooooow.

Putting something on Disney+ now for the next 10 minutes until I'm derpface asleep.

Ghost · Dec 22, 2019, 12:56 PM

Just discovered a new RL peeve to get that "person knows they're in the wrong but trying to ruin someone else for a lesser offense" peeve off my mind until I have to deal with it later today.

Disney+ having all 3 Mighty Ducks movies but when you click on them all you can play are the special features because contractually they are not allowed to stream the movies until JULY 2020 is like...

Rinel · Dec 22, 2019, 2:16 PM

@Derp said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

I mean, perjury requires specific intent, but a lie really only requires that you demonstrate that a false statement was made

Well, lying isn't a crime, while perjury is, but perjury really is nothing more than lying under oath.

The widespread understanding of lying is

saying a statement
that you know or believe to be false.

You can theoretically lie while making true statements! And commit perjury, too, IIRC. If it's proven you intended to mislead, the truth won't be an affirmative defense.

Ganymede · Dec 22, 2019, 6:25 PM

@Rinel

In the context outside of a courtroom, the listener has to determine if there is an intent or not. That determination has to be made from available facts.

Going back to my story, it’s really not about a lie, intent, or deception. It is about whether one should be gracious and accept an undesired product from a loved one rather than point out that you told them what you actually wanted. Because doing the latter is a very quick way for that loved one to stop doing you favors.

Rinel · Dec 22, 2019, 6:57 PM

@Ganymede

I'm picking what I want to talk about and arguing out of a comment, regardless of the remainder of the same.

Ganymede · Dec 22, 2019, 7:09 PM

@Rinel

Tinuviel · Dec 22, 2019, 9:38 PM

Macha · Dec 22, 2019, 11:01 PM

@Ghost They can't play the Ducks until July? Well, I won't be subbing until then! (They are a favorite set of movies in my family)

silentsophia · Dec 23, 2019, 8:12 AM

Being in the shittiest psych ward in the state. They almost stole my bag, and did steal my little gamer fidget cube from antsy. Oh, and I loved the half frozen chicken, never being able to leave the main room and we didn't even get to know what time it was or what day. They tranquilized a poor teenage girl (DA FUQ IS SHE DOING WITH US ADULTS? Poor kid) so badly we ended up taking care of her by waking her up for breaks, bathroom, food, etc.
Strokelike migraines that increase the risk of actual migraines. APHASIA IS FUN EVERYONE! fuuuuuuuuuck. 2 ER visits, several months with a neurologist and they stuck me on depakote.
Awkward/terrible/stupid shit I did popping up in my brain at random. I never did figure out how I wronged Belieri, and I feel horrible about it.
When I find a yarn I like and it's discontinued and sold all of fucking nowhere.
My betta got diagnosed with TB and died, so I had to bleach and destroy everything because fish TB will cheerfully become human TB or buruli ulcers. Buruli ulcers consume flesh and bone if untreated. Google at your own risk.
the fact that I need to hurry with disability because what fucking workplace is gonna take someone who could stroke out at any minute? Yeah.

boneghazi · Dec 23, 2019, 1:04 PM

No my prone-to-getting-sick-because-he-has-a-cleft-palate son may not drink after you and your cold sores. It's why I locked you out o the fridge and do not allow you to drink from the milk carton you fat fuckhead.

Auspice · Dec 23, 2019, 1:35 PM

@nyctophiliac said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

No my prone-to-getting-sick-because-he-has-a-cleft-palate son may not drink after you and your cold sores. It's why I locked you out o the fridge and do not allow you to drink from the milk carton you fat fuckhead.

No one should drink directly from the carton no matter what.
That's just gross.

surreality · Dec 23, 2019, 3:46 PM

@silentsophia All the hugs. I am so sorry to hear things are going so awfully. (I am glad to see you back and around, though. Had been worrying for you and wondering how things were going out there.)

Also: my very favorite yarn on earth to dye is like that. If I wanted more, I'd have to order a full shipping container of it from the manufacturer in China and have it sent to the local port, where I would presumably have to pick it up... somehow. IT EXISTS! It just reaaaaaally may as well not. (I have zero doubt I could dye multiple tons of yarn! I have... none of the other things required to buy, skein, process, wring, reprocess, store, etc. that quantity of anything. )

Auspice · Dec 23, 2019, 8:27 PM

My dad called today to ask if I could lend him some money.
I reminded him that I am moving this week.

What I wanted to say, but didn't, was "motherfucker you sent me vacation photos last week."

Macha · Dec 23, 2019, 9:25 PM

Filling out onboarding and background BS this week (but got a job offer, yay!) - Sadly, the recruiter and I seem to have a communication issue - "Hey, this won't let me sign it." "Please sign this form and send it back to me." " ... I tried to do that, I downloaded it again and refilled it out - it still will not allow me to sign it" "Please redownload and sign it. "

Just... Grr

Derp · Dec 23, 2019, 9:42 PM

@Macha said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Filling out onboarding and background BS this week (but got a job offer, yay!) - Sadly, the recruiter and I seem to have a communication issue - "Hey, this won't let me sign it." "Please sign this form and send it back to me." " ... I tried to do that, I downloaded it again and refilled it out - it still will not allow me to sign it" "Please redownload and sign it. "

Just... Grr

That sounds like the nightmare that is DocuSign.