Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.

[Aria]

@surreality said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Aria I think my official irk of the day is that it isn't already my house, so yes.

Also, yes it does and I weirdly love it. I even love/hate the decor. (Some I love, some I hate.) The gargoyles everywhere? Original to the house. I MEAN...

I stumbled across it a few days ago and was just dyin' because... yeah you always hear about 'that gorgeous huge old house that's selling for way less than it should' and you think 'sure, I hear about that, but I've never actually seen it happen... ' and, welp... seen it now!

I mean if I absolutely have to get haunt-murdered... I'd like to do it there, plz.

I feel kind of like... if you hang up giant weird paintings of Seventh Seal death in your house, you're kind of inviting ghosts to come murder you. Like that's basically just a flashing sign that says "poltergeists welcome here."

Just sayin'.

[surreality]

@Aria I loved my husband's reaction to it when I showed it to him.

...that was even before I pointed out the murder-haunted pricetag.

[Aria]

@surreality Ohh, tell him to stop being such a baby.

If I win the PowerBall, Imma buy it and you guys can have the 3BDR carriage house and then you can come over and we can play Umbrella Academy meets CAOS whenever we want. It'll be totally fine as long as no one lets the fireplaces go out at midnight and if it gets really bad, we'll just let the ghosts eat one of the neighborhood kids.

[surreality]

@Aria You bet that's #1 on the lottery wishlist.

Like, it is nothing like what I want. We have an actual omg our dream house is for sale again right now. (OK, it's mine AGAIN, but the husband is 1000% on board because it has all but VERY few of his fringiest wishlist dream bits, and same for me.) But that one's just off enough that with fuck-you wads of cash? Yeah, we'd build something similar with the differences we want and a good studio space.

It is also $2M (ETA: AND 2ksqft smaller... ), though, so, y'know, honey, the haunted mansion is much nicer as a 'while we take time building something else' place, and we could keep it to just send any wayward ghosts there, right?

Actual conversation, the next day:

Me: "You know how you said we could have a haunted dollhouse as a lottery project, yeah?"
Brian: "You want to turn the murderhouse into-"
Me: "It counts as a dollhouse if I keep the doll collection there, right?"
Brian:

(He did actually go right to that quote, I was proud of him.)

[Testament]

Since I started to regale you all with this story, the drama has continued into the weekend. So a short recap for those of you not aware: tldr; I made a comment about hunting, get blown up at by the DM's new girlfriend.

I should've clarified that particular point. 'New'. So, my DM is a great guy, socially awkward as fuck, but a good person.I'd chalk it up to him being homeschooled and not always picking up on cues, but generally I consider him a good friend. Great storyteller, the man should really be an author instead of screwing around with us yokels. Personally, I think he the stuff he runs is just using us as a testbed for his plots. Either way, they're great stories.

But he's never had the best relationship life, and he finally met someone who clicks really well with him. With him. I've since learned after our tt session a couple days ago where I walked out, that I wasn't the only one she had lit in on. I got a couple messages on Discord from another player who had to deal with a tirade from her regarding how he's a 'coward for being a moderate' as I guess he and the DM were working on the new gaming table the DM had been building in his basement this weekend and like a lot of other people, the whole impeachment trial came up in the process of conversation. I didn't hear the details, but it became a whole 'thing', that wound up with the DM apologizing and having to go upstairs to smooth over stuff. The other player was like 'yeah imma head out'.

So last night, the group, sans the DM were in a group convo talking about what the hell were we going to do. The DM is our mutual friend and it'd be an asshole move to say 'us or her'. But at the same time, some of us are getting really tired of her shit. The moment we push back against her views, she decries her opinions are being repressed and the waterworks will start up. None of us want to deal with it but we also don't want to stop playing either.

I've suggested that next week I host game. My apartment is more than big enough. My SO is fine with it since they're already in a campaign with their coworkers from her job, so there's no FOMO going on.

Still, nobody wants to say 'your new girlfriend is batty and needs to be medicated'. As much as I hate to say it, they're really good for each other. She's just a nightmare for anyone else to be around. Espeically if a given topic doesn't conform to her views.

Not really sure what'll happen from here, but I suspect the drama will continue. I'll keep this updated.

[Ganymede]

@Testament said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

As much as I hate to say it, they're really good for each other.

Unsolicited commentary: how do you know?

Let's say he tells you. Let's say he tells you how happy he is. How she satisfies him in ways no one else has. This is all great. Let's say that you believe him.

If it is clear to him that his significant other won't get along with his friends, then he has a choice to make. Telling him that you don't get along with his SO and would rather not be around him is a logical, reasonable, adult thing to say. Letting him make the choice will be painful for him but, guess what, growing up is painful.

But let's say that he doesn't always get along with her. Or that he is unhappy that she goes full-blown political on his friends. Would it surprise you if she mouthed off to his parents? That he has noticed that people don't want to hang out with him any more if his SO is around?

Then you're just pointing out the obvious: that his SO is alienating him from the people he also loves and cares about. It isn't a pleasant place to be in but, guess what, growing up is painful.

I was not ready to have kids. I have come to the conclusion that no matter how good I am judged to be with my kids, I am not a kid-person. It's not how I see myself and it was never an ambition of mine to be a parent. But I suck it the fuck up, put on a smile, and try to be the best damn parent I can be. It has meant fewer nights out. It has meant giving up my burgeoning acting career. It has meant fewer networking events. It has meant spending more time confined in the house.

Fewer friends. Fewer drinks. Fewer adventures to get into and fewer tales to talk about. There's a part of me inside that screams aloud about where I could have been or could have done if I was more of an asshole, told my partner off years ago, and went on my merry scalawag way. But I've accepted that there are sacrifices to be made for choices we have made and, guess what, growing up is painful.

I personally do not believe a person is good for another if they alienate those around them. That's a sign of not accepting who they are.

[Roz]

@Testament said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Still, nobody wants to say 'your new girlfriend is batty and needs to be medicated'. As much as I hate to say it, they're really good for each other. She's just a nightmare for anyone else to be around. Espeically if a given topic doesn't conform to her views.

Well, nobody SHOULD say that, because you really don't need to say someone needs to be medicated just because they're acting like an asshole. They just need to stop acting like an asshole.

But this doesn't have to be an "her or us" situation. He doesn't need to break up with his girlfriend for you guys to not have to hang out with her. It just means that he may not get to hang out with his friends and his girlfriend at the same time.

I think there's a lot of value in being direct, especially with people that you feel aren't the best at social cues. There is a kind way to say, "Hey, I love our tabletop and I love hanging out, but your girlfriend really goes on the attack in a way that makes me uncomfortable. I respect that she's passionate about her beliefs, but it's tough to feel like we can't hang out without feeling like stuff is going to explode. Can I offer to host our tabletop sessions for a while? I still want to spend time with you, but right now I'm not ready to spend time with her."

This is an awkward situation, because there are levels in which I'd totally support someone in her situation -- girlfriend coming into her boyfriend's space -- expressing discomfort if her boyfriend's friends were being actively gross or toxic. Like if it's a group making shitty sexist jokes, I think it's okay for a person in that position to go, "That's really not okay to say." But, jesus, I have strong opinions about a lot of shit, but there are levels here. I'm not super comfortable with hunting either, but it sure sounds like you weren't being aggressive about it and that you take it seriously. I also have opinions about the dangers of political centrism or wtfe, but I'm not going to attack my boyfriend's friends about it??????

You say that your friend has trouble with social cues and whatnot, so I think the kindest thing is to be kind but direct. Don't bash his girlfriend, but it's really okay to say that you don't appreciate being treated a certain way or feeling like you're entering a minefield every time you hang out.

[Testament]

ngl, we've all been walking on eggshells about it. Mostly because nobody wants to be 'that person'. We've just kind of been dealing with it because we want to be supportive of our mutual's relationship. Two of us have asked to say something because we'd be most direct about it. I was one of them, but personally? I think it's just going to start another blow up, even when we're trying to be civil.

I don't really want to say anything because I don't think it's any of my business. I can deal with my own incident, if only because it's not the first time someone went after me because of a pasttime I take part in and usually, I'm more than happy to have a talk about what hunting means in regards to conservationism and herd/flock health. I completely understand the stigma it carries and it's never something I toss around willy-nilly because I know how that can be taken. The fact that I don't wear Realtree 24/7 and that I don't display my rifle seems to surprise some.

Personally speaking, I don't really have an issue with her, and we were all more or less fine until this started happening. I look back on previous sessions and I'm wondering if anyone in particular was being gross or nasty or something, and nothing really comes to mind, but I'm not discounting the possibility only because I'm not 100% certain.

I may say something after work. What I'd like to do, if just sit down with her and state 'hey, can we talk this out because I don't want this to be antagonistic event and no one here is trying to be an asshole'. I'd prefer to come to some kind of understanding or middle ground.

I guess we'll see.

[Ganymede]

@Testament said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

What I'd like to do, if just sit down with her and state 'hey, can we talk this out because I don't want this to be antagonistic event and no one here is trying to be an asshole'. I'd prefer to come to some kind of understanding or middle ground.

Unsolicited commentary: I think you should not do this.

He's your friend. She doesn't owe you an explanation or shit. And going around him to her is not a good look.

Talk to him and him alone. Explain your position and thoughts, and then let him think about it long and hard.

When I was younger, one of our friends started dating an older woman. She disapproved of our drinking and debauchery; she thought we should grow up. She was a stick in the mud, and it showed, but wtf she was older than us. And my friend distanced himself from us. Some of us told him that we didn't like how he was "leaving" us for her, but he didn't take it personally. He just told us that he liked spending time with her, and that was that.

They are married and have two kids. He's still a friend, but he made his choice and it was probably the right one. But it was his choice to make.

[Roz]

@Testament Their relationship isn't your business. But I wasn't suggesting you talk to them about his relationship with his girlfriend. What is your business is how you're treated. I agree with @Ganymede: this is a conversation to have with your friend, privately, not his girlfriend. Don't make it about their relationship. You're not asking him to dump her. You're setting boundaries to your interactions with him.

The choice will be his, as Gany says. If he wants to keep hanging out with his friends, he'll have to navigate that with his girlfriend, which means either he talks to her about chilling out a bit when hanging with his friends, or him hanging out with you guys more without her.

[Testament]

@Roz Sorry, that might've come out wrong. I wasn't either. The intention was to start a dialogue, not try breaking anyone up. That's about the last thing I'd want. If that was the case, I'd wish him well and go my separate way. But maybe that says something that I'm more willing to walk.

Still, it's all good advice. And if it's not me, it'll be another person who was mentioned. But, uh, he's a lot more blunt than I am, for better or worse. So. We'll see. I don't think it'll end up nearly as bad as some think. The sky isn't falling.

[Roz]

@Testament or IS IT

[Testament]

@Roz Well, it'll suck if the campaign ends if it all goes to pot. Then again, wouldn't be the first tabletop that went to the bin because of outside factors.

I just want to heal with hooves. That's all I really want.

[Auspice]

So, @Ganymede has the right of it. She's alienating him. And it might look right on the outside but...

@Testament you know me.
You also know the marriage I went through.

For the first few years I was 'happy.'
I was also alone.
I was alone because my ex-husband alienated me from everyone that wasn't his friend. And shit, if I became good friends with any of his friends, that got shut down too. Everyone was an asshole or a bitch or he just didn't like them. He'd be shitty to them when we were around them. He'd bad mouth them to me when we weren't. If I saw my friends without him he'd call me nonstop to come home and he missed me and...

It took me years to realize it wasn't healthy. I thought I just had bad taste in friends. I thought he just loved me and spending time with me that much.

I kind of wish someone had sat down with me and said they missed seeing me or they were worried about how he treated me or.... Instead, post-divorce, I got friends back and everyone going 'thank God we were so sick of that guy.'

And I mean. I get it. It's awkward. But at the same time no one was there before we got married and it could've been stopped. No one was there in the years he was doing the most damage. If this girlfriend of your buddy's is isolating him in a similar way? You could be saving him now by sitting him down and going hey, look, I know you like her and I know this is a big deal....but remember that friendships outside of a relationship are important and if she's not letting you have those / is making those difficult, you might want to think about things.

[Ganymede]

@Auspice said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

You could be saving him now by sitting him down and going hey, look, I know you like her and I know this is a big deal....but remember that friendships outside of a relationship are important and if she's not letting you have those / is making those difficult, you might want to think about things.

Said another way, a friend may betray you and break your heart but if they leave you don't end up owing them half of your house.

[Ghost]

@Testament I'd tread a little carefully, TBH.

If this GM is socially awkward or has any sort of confidence issues, the girl sounds like the sort of strong-willed Yoko that could break up the band. Some people will sell their souls to strong-willed people. D&D is the companionship every few weeks. Girlfriend is daily. Advantage: girlfriend. Some of these people are just fine alienating their SOs friends until they get the person all to themselves.

My gaming group has had a few people being their SOs to game and it's mostly horrible to the point that we implemented a house rule: RPG TIME IS FOR RPG PLAYERS ONLY. Weve had my buddy's annoying girlfriends sewing while we play, reading, etc and making commentary while asking the players to stop so he could get her drinks. I've heard of a few groups where a girlfriend would hang out topless for attention to try to distract from game. SO wants to watch TV while we game? Fucking great, put on some headphones and don't chirp. Otherwise, they can go do something else.

Clearly this girlfriend (cant remember if you said shes playing or not) is doing a little bit of divide and conquer, here.

Other ideas to use house rules as a way to stop this stuff?

• House Rule: No politics or religion
• House Rule: Keep it IC. No coming after people for their personal lives.

The more you try to keep things clear that HER behavior is disruptive despite her hate of YOUR beliefs, the better off you'll be. This is a HER problem. Not a GM problem or a YOU problem. A "THIS SPECIFIC PERSON IS BEING RUDE AND AGGRESSIVE" problem.

She joined into THIS group, not the other way around.

But if you push too hard and if this GM is like: "zoinks, I'll never do better than this girl" your gaming group could be in jeopardy.

[Aria]

@Testament

It sounds like now is a really good time for your friend to learn that in healthy relationships, you don't need to Do Exactly All of the Things Always and Forever with your partner. Like, it's legitimately better for both of you if you don't share all of the same interests/hobbies/social circles and that you don't necessarily have to be forced to choose between your boo and your besties.

Example:
@insomniac7809 has a super shitty, unpredictable calendar because he works retail. It is often difficult for him to make plans in advance, so scheduling social activities is hard. I have some things where if he's off that night and going out -- SCA events, bowling league -- I will include him every time, because he knows those people, gets along with them, and it's a group event.

I also have my two best girls, who both adore him. But. But! When we go out, it's frequently a "ladies night" kind of vibe. I will only invite my husband along after asking my friends if its okay and even then, it's when we're doing things like going to the movies or going to one friend's house when I know her husband will also be there for him to chill with. When we're getting together for our annual Christmas dinner, grabbing drinks, having a life event gossip/vent session, or celebrating our strangely close birthdays.... he doesn't need to be there. At all. It would be awkward and weird.

It should be okay for your DM to be able to have TT nights with his just his friends. It should be okay for you to ask. It is not okay to be ass about it or frame it as "her or us" when you have the option of going with, "Hey, man. I noticed your girlfriend seems pretty uncomfortable with some of our views, some of us have been uncomfortable with her behavior, and you're left in this awkward in-the-middle position that must feel awful. Since we don't all gel, maybe we can do our TT with just us and you can do X, Y, or Z with just her?"

That's not a comment on her being a shitty person, pressure to sever a relationship, or being melodramatic. It's just acknowledging that you guys don't mesh and that probably sucks for him, so you want to find a solution that leaves no one feeling strained and uncomfortable. You never know. He might even be relieved to have someone give him a reasonable out without anybody bailing, crying, or shooting each other awkward looks.

[Tinuviel]

@Aria said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

Like, it's legitimately better for both of you if you don't share all of the same interests/hobbies/social circles and that you don't necessarily have to be forced to choose between your boo and your besties.

Amen.

Further to that, people are more like their friend circle than they are their partner, most of the time. If she doesn't get along with this dude's friends, she's not going to get along with him when the blush of the new romance really fades.

[Arkandel]

@Aria Pet peeve: Couples sharing their social media accounts. The "Nick and Laura" Facebook page kinda deals.

For some reason it irks me so much. Like aren't you people separate beings! Don't you have more than one device connecting to the interwebs?

[Aria]

@Arkandel said in Real World Peeves, Disgruntlement, and Irks.:

@Aria Pet peeve: Couples sharing their social media accounts. The "Nick and Laura" Facebook page kinda deals.

For some reason it irks me so much. Like aren't you people separate beings! Don't you have more than one device connecting to the interwebs?

Those legit creep me out. Like, a lot. AFAIC, the only time they're socially acceptable is when it's an old couple who have an account on these new fangled Facegrams so they can see pictures of their grandkids four states over and wants to leave nice, encouraging comments on your selfie from six months ago.

Grandma gets a pass because she's trying. (And it's always Grandma. Grandpa just puts his glasses on, squints at the phone, and says "Well, isn't that nice?" and then goes back to watching baseball.)