Dice Mechanics
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What are you favorites?
Roll and keep? straight D(whatever) vs difficulty? DSS style where you roll random number from 1 to Difficulty? Etc
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@wildbaboons Concealed from the player. So I just type +roll strength+brawl and the code spits the outcome back at me, that's my favorite.
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I prefer roll and count successes. I think that adding and subtracting dice for modifiers (as you'd find in nWoD, SR4, FS3 and various other systems) is a more intuitive way of handling stacked modifiers than trying to assess a singular raw difficulty of "easy, hard, etc.". And I like the way it allows for degrees of success - one success is fine for a passing grade, but extra ones get you more stars.
@arkandel said in Dice Mechanics:
Concealed from the player.
LOL - have you actually tried that? Geez, for as much flak as I get from people not liking FS3 mechanics, I got a gazillion times more on an older system when the mechanics were hidden, or even 1st edition FS3 when nobody understood the math. "What skill level should I take?" "Well, pick an adjective - are you average, good, or what?" "F the adjectives, girl -- what do the numbers mean?"
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@arkandel That's my feeling too. The place I'm working towards will have descriptors for difficulty, not numbers (easy, hard, 80s Action Movie, etc)
But behind the scenes?
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@faraday said in Dice Mechanics:
@arkandel said in Dice Mechanics:
Concealed from the player.
LOL - have you actually tried that?
Hey, the question was what we prefer. That's what I prefer!
- He who takes offense when not intended is a fool. He who takes offense when intended is a greater fool.
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@arkandel said in Dice Mechanics:
Hey, the question was what we prefer. That's what I prefer!
Heh, fair enough. My preference is slanted by being on the receiving end of the complaints said choice generates
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In general I prefer roll dice add modifiers compare to difficulty.
However my alright favorite mechanical set up runs counter to that general preference. I know this is a very unpopular choice but I think for a mechanical base Fading Suns has my favorite system. The idea was role a D20 and try to get as close as you could without going over your target. For example if your target was a 15, a 3 and a 12 would both succeed but if degree mattered the 12 was better. rolling a 15 would be a critical success. The main reasons I liked it was that it was quick and easy during use and for explaining to new gamers or just people unfamiliar with the system it was easy as could be to explain because of the Price is Right, virtually every one has seen it at least a few times so the concept of as close as you can without going over is familiar. -
Or how about both!
Twilight 2013 has roll x number of d20s against TNs based on your stats, which can go up and down.
Are there any stats nerds out there? I'd be curious to find out what is the bigger percentage bonus, an extra d20, or an extra +1 on the target number.
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@sg said in Dice Mechanics:
Are there any stats nerds out there? I'd be curious to find out what is the bigger percentage bonus, an extra d20, or an extra +1 on the target number.
It depends on how many dice you have before the modifier and the exact numbers involved. An extra die will give you an increase in expected success equal to the chance of success on one die.
A +1 modifier in a d20 system like you described would give an increase of expected successes based on the size of the pool already existing. -
I have no favorite.
Well, I do have one favorite: One that is not distracting to the game itself.
Hell, I didn't even mind THAC0 that much, though I'm very glad that it's gone. It was just one of those things that you dealt with like bizarre progression of To-Hit or Saving Throws. These things affect and are affected by the dice system.
For instance, an otherwise kind of simple system like "roll Xd10, success at Y (4-10), -1 success if 1 is rolled", but then you have to create rules that are affected by some bizarre system mechanics (if Y = 10, you always have a 50% chance to succeed).
Or some of the very strange things that happened to D&D when tying stat bonuses to the die roll. (I really rather hate the way stats progress in D&D 3e and on because of it.)
That said, my favorite in context is the 7th Sea Roll-and-Keep system. It gets strange at 'Roll 0', but that's about its only exception, and it binds Attributes and Skills in a way most roll systems don't.
I may like VtM5e's hunger dice mechanic, but we will see. It harkens to Don't Rest Your Head, whose dice system is the game mechanic, in a very push-your-luck way.
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Hmm, so in my homebrew, I have skill level giving more dice to throw at a problem, and quality of tools adding or subtracting from the target number.
Like, pretend your base stat is 8.
If you are an expert at something, you'd throw 4d20L looking to roll under 8. If you get one die under 8, you succeed.
If you are a total noob, you'd be rolling 2d20H, looking to roll under 8, but you pick the highest die because you suck.
If you have nice tools or equipment, you could get up to +3 or so on your target number. If you are using crappy equipment, down to -3 for really shitty stuff.
Does that make sense?
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None.
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@sg
Makes sense and i I can see what you are angling for, after all with the tools changing the target it means that the unskilled guy is still limited in what he can accomplish even with the best tools the success total still has the same cap. -
Beautiful, beautiful bell curves. I want high skills to succeed most of the time, with only a tiny chance of failure. I want really low skills to fail most of the time, with a small (but not tiny) chance of succeeding.
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Lately, I'm kind of in love with Victoriana's dice mechanic. Your skill is X dice, your difficulty is Y dice. Successes on Y subtract from successes on X. I use it as part of a homebrew system on a project I'm working on, where we call Y 'risk'.
I like it because its possible that even with a high risk, you can still succeed.
The theory is like... If you're at home with all the time in the world picking a lock on a chest, you've got no risk. Roll X dice, count successes. If you're trying to pick the lock of a backdoor in an area that's patrolled infrequently, that might be risk 2. If you're trying to pick the lock of a backdoor in an area that's patrolled regularly, that might be risk 4.
In systems where you express difficulty by increasing the target number, you can get to points where a task is impossible. In systems where you express difficulty by adding modifiers, these hard tasks can drop you down to 0 (or a chance die), and I don't like those because the difficulty means its only possible to edge past success.
Making every roll a contested roll where 'difficulty' is therefore not static but itself random is a really fun thing to me.
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I've been a fan recently of Cortex's dice system. Make your pool from a vareity, roll. Choose two to be your total vs. a target number, and one to be the 'effect' die which measures success. Then do things to modify how many you keep for the total, or how many effect die you have to apply to other targets, etc.
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Dice are dice, and there are more ways to apply them than just read the numbers off them. An example is having a set skill value, and havinf the die roll determine what percentage of that total (upper limit) value you apply to the situation. That way everyone has the same bell curve, but their skill ratings matter.
I believe Silver Age Sentinels used that idea, applying 50/75/100% of damage. This gets around the issue that 5d6 will roll near the upper values far more often than 10d6 will roll those same numbers but X2. This is why hero System has to watch Killing Attacks, which cost 3X as much, but can roll higher totals, and will do so more often than equivalent cost in regular attacks.
Otherwise, I prefer a roll and keep system, especially paired with the ability to "spend" the result on specific flavors of success.
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I am a weird weirdo, but... I like dice that measure more than just a success/fail outcome. It began with Star Wars D6 having the 'Oh shit' die, where even if the total roll was a success, a result of 1 meant Something Bad Happened.
This has evolved to my LURVE for the Genesys system used for FFG SW (and others) because it has multiple things that can happen. What's more, the dice in this system are the greatest way to conceal GM railroading, because a successful lock pick test on a door you weren't supposed to go through, which also has BadThing result, means there are now Consequences to going off the rails. On the other hand, the different results may allow a player to have some narrative agency over the environment (other examples include FATE or Cortex, where you can make bids for declaring something about the scene). Roleplaying Games are supposed to be cooperative after all.
If a dice mechanic/system fits within the theme of the game, I also enjoy it. See: FFG L5R, where you have a sort of Roll&Keep going on, but sometimes success here leads to bad things (a loss of face (I'm using the term wrong, but I can't think of the right way to phrase this (parenthesis are fun!!!))). Your have the option to not roll enough successes to 'save face'/not lose honor.
Stepping towards a theoretical for a moment, I kiiiiindof want to see a game where your skill level modifies your difficulty. Because someone with 'world class pistol skillz' should be able to shoot a thing at difficulty 3, while 'pistol beginner' would shoot at the same target at difficulty 8 or something. I'm not even sold on the 1-10 scale for this, just numbers I pulled out of thin air.
[/rambling]
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@jennkryst For changing target numbers, the usual easiest way (but more detail to track) is something that reduces penalties for harder than average tasks. I usually recommend that a negative modifier not be reduced below half (but round down).
Example: In a system where you add skill to a roll to beat a target number (lets say 2d10 with +10 being well trained and experienced, +15 being elite, +20 being a world-class master) you might list someone as +13/4, meaning they get to add 13 to the 2d10 roll, AND they can cut any negative modifiers in half up to shaving off 4 difficulty for a -8 or worse modifier. So range, size of target, injuries, uncertain ballistic performance of an old and untried weapon, partial cover, moving targets, etc all are partially canceled.
Or you can go nuts, and have a scope and a penalty reducing skill that deals with long range shooting, something else for picking a good (critical) target, one for dealing with movement prediction and timing, a skill to ignore wounds when firing (or in general), etc etc etc. I like details. However, +13/4 is pretty easy to remember.
