nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E
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That @Thenomain said. Why I said Right or Wrong. System may not be designed for it but its what people want.
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@thenomain said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
At least using "how long can I play there?" as a metric of viability, I think people are willing to put up with complexity in exchange for longevity.
Is this a good metric for viability or desirability? If so, then places like Dark Metal, Tartarus, and Haight-Ashbury are among the shining examples of the best that the WoD games have to offer.
“It is better to live doing the things that you like. It is foolish to live within this dream of a world seeing unpleasantness and doing only things that you do not like.” -- Yamamoto Tsunetomo.
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@ganymede said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
@thenomain said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
At least using "how long can I play there?" as a metric of viability, I think people are willing to put up with complexity in exchange for longevity.
Is this a good metric for viability or desirability? If so, then places like Dark Metal, Tartarus, and Haight-Ashbury are among the shining examples of the best that the WoD games have to offer.
Please note the word I did not use was "quality".
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@magee101 said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
I fully agree that the system is clearly not designed for it.
This is where I full-stop.
I think it is far too cool to have a scooby gang of vampire changeling and mage or etc to stay away from it.
This is where we diverge.
I just hate when ppl bitch about the balance. To me it is just like any other party composition rpg. Find strengths and weakness, use strs, shore up weaknesses, work together.
Except it's not "any other party composition." This is not like tossing a Phoenix shugenja in with a group of Crab bushi, putting a druid in with a bunch of rogues, or a decker with a group of street samurai. This is mashing together different games with different themes and focuses together, and expecting something that isn't the system equivalent of a bar fight at a gay club between card-carrying Republicans on Memorial Day.
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@ganymede some people can work around things and others cannot. Thankfully GM fiat is a thing and so since I do like the idea of the game as being a party composition I can slightly rewrite themes or add canon that makes it more likely for characters from various splats to work together when I want to see it done that way.
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GarouMUSH ran for a good number of years; but their mechanics were strange and everything was glacial in terms of advancement, so...
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@killer-klown said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
GarouMUSH ran for a good number of years; but their mechanics were strange and everything was glacial in terms of advancement, so...
It was also run in the days where people would Mu* while they were doing ten other things, most of them studying and doing projects for university classes. Nowadays that is not a thing.
But yeah, GarouMUSH was...not a standard WoD Mu*. For good and ill.
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multi sphere games seem dumb because of DARLINGS. I tried to play hunter and my background got denied because it involved killing a vampire in another town. I was told we weren't allowed to hunt ANY of the monster types the game supported, because otherwise that group of monsters would have reason to get TEH REVENGE.
I asked if the vampires in game were likewise not allowed to hunt/kill humans and my logic was not appreciated.
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*Tweet!*
Anecdotal evidence masquerading as overarching summary on the field of play. Ten yard penalty. Third down.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@killer-klown I would actually love a game with glacial advancement again. Where the game was about the characters and the story and the roleplaying and not getting to the next stat level as quickly as possible, even if only to keep up with the other players who are surely getting to the next stat level as quickly as possible.
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@thenomain it's almost like I said "seem" to indicate it was an opinion based on my experience.
It's literally one post above yours. Laziness in the service of wit, something something sportsball
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In general, insofar as I have seen (ymmv), Multi-Sphere games have taken the approach of just going 'BOOK STANDARD SETTING' and going from there with a variety of sandboxes for folks to play in. This allows people to create a character with the same information they have had for 10 years and don't need to read new information about.
Single-Sphere games, not having only one or two staff per sphere (let alone sphere-specific theme staff) who might have to coordinate things, have had the luxury of going 'here are setting-specific modifications to X, Y, and Z'. The drawback is that in exchange for this new variation of a setting to explore with RP, folks have to put in some effort to learn it.
For real, how many times have you seen some say (or said yourself) 'New game? This will give me the chance to play that (bloodline/lodge/legacy/whatever) character I have been working on'... not knowing if said (bloodline/lodge/legacy/whatever) is even allowed. The presumption that it will just be a repeat of the same game with a fresh coat of paint is strong.
So the core rulebooks may be their own games that don't mesh well. But. A Sanctified Vampire doesn't really mesh well with a Crone, either, until you give them a reason to.
Enter the Storyteller, who writes up, like... an alliance between the Arrows and the various militant branches of different Covenants. Perhaps the Prince has codified that one example in the book into law... to be granted domain or space for a haven, you must ally with whatever Wolfpack is nearby, because the Prince was Wolfblooded before getting Embraced, and still believes blood is thicker than water. Plus, you can help manage their shit while they guard your haven during the day.
Just... random ideas, you know. We talk a lot about how the game wasn't designed to be played as what is essentially a 24/7 LARP mechanically or XP-wise, but overlook how it also wasn't designed to be taken as the end-all be-all setting omnibus that a Storyteller isn't allowed to alter.
Edit because spelling is hard.
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Eh, I find special snowflakes everywhere, regardless. And I find staff making what I think are foolish decisions everywhere. In the context of single- or multi-sphere WoD games, I'll agree you get less of it on single-sphere games, but I think people act irrationally about it on multi-sphere games because of the history of the WoD games in this hobby. Which is admittedly pretty terrible especially as long as staff react poorly to it.
e.g., My first character on Haunted Memories was rejected by a spazztastic staffer because the character's history involved a minor. How easy it would have been to say: As long as this minor does not come into play that's fine. Just: App rejected.
I think the lack of trust in this hobby, and the abuse of trust in this hobby, keeps too much fun from happening.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@thenomain said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
I think the lack of trust in this hobby, and the abuse of trust in this hobby, keeps too much fun from happening.
Cause or effect? Which came first - the chicken or the egg? I've only been around MU*ing for about 15 years or so so I don't know how it started. By the time I started the lack of trust was already a thing in a lot of places. But I think this is a symptom, not a cause of the problem.
I have been on plenty of games where trust has not been an issue - for the most part. And there have been funtimes. The problem is that it only takes a few small bad trust experiences to ruin months or years of a run on a good game. You hit that one bump and a long, good ride suddenly comes crashing to a premature, disappointing end. Most every character I've played has ended that way.
And in every instance it has been unwillingness of the people involved to resolve any issues in a mature way, a lack of being able to speak to each other without hurling insults or taking offense at every slight that has been the cause of failures, usually bolstered by the indomitable shield of internet anonymity.
The way I see it, not trusting someone will use an underage character appropriately in their story is not the problem. Shutting it down with no communication or attempt to come to an understanding is. But since this community is filled with 'insult first, ask questions never' types, I believe this will always, always be a thing in this hobby.
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The further away from needing to trust, the better we are at trusting. I don't need to trust staff as much when there's a dice roll I can see the mechanics of, for instance. I don't need to trust other players as much when they're bound by the same mechanics as I am.
Which, while I still perhaps unreasonably hate it, automation of most things goes a far way to making happen.
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@warma-sheen said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
I've only been around MU*ing for about 15 years or so so I don't know how it started.
People taking it too seriously.
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@thenomain said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
e.g., My first character on Haunted Memories was rejected by a spazztastic staffer because the character's history involved a minor. How easy it would have been to say: As long as this minor does not come into play that's fine. Just: App rejected.
My first character on Requiem for Kingsmouth had an underage ward with him, and the undertones of "there's something more here" were pervasive enough that IC rumors started.
And this was intentional. For Sarah (the ward), from whom Cai had fed, definitely thought of him as more than just "adopted dad" as a result. No one accused me of wanting to RP out underage-sex fantasies. And the few people who thought the relationship seemed odd at times brought it up ICly. As a result, there was a lot of mileage out of that Touchstone.
Which is part of playing Vampire 2E, but an element that people neglect on MUSHes.
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I am of the opinion that 1e is better than 2e.
I don't like flat XP costs.
I like the Bloodline, Legacy, power, merits, etc, options.
I think the power creep on 2e is way more real.
Vampire I mostly prefer 2e, other than the lack of bloodlines, the power creep and the lack of interesting blood sorcery rituals/miracles, but werewolf and mage? 1e.
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In general I prefer 2e mechanics but I dislike the concept of the God-machine (the only thing more played out to me than magic coming from Atlantis) that I go with 1e simply to avoid it.
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@sunnyj said in nWorld of Darkness 1E v 2E:
I don't like flat XP costs.
To be fair, I (and I assume a non-zero number of others) would be totally cool with non... flat... xp costs if chargen followed this formula. Everyone starts with 1 dot in each attribute, 0 dots in everything else, and a pile of xp to spend on things.
werewolf [...]? 1e.
A day shall come, when I am truly bored, that I will passive aggressively just spam a 1e Forsaken staff with TS Harmony violations. BUT THAT IS NOT THIS DAY.
