criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong

[Thenomain]

@roz said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

@thenomain If you feel really strongly that there's something to excuse, you can just post up a log of the offending behavior on an appropriate forum post. Presumably it would speak for itself.

Now this is a reasonable request.

I'm not going to do it because it's done, over with, and it's convenient for my own emotional well-being that if you lot want to keep dogpiling me over it then you'll have to sit there smugly upvoting each other with being right.

And I don't care if you do.

Not because I don't care about what you think but because I want to move on.

I only brought it up OUT OF CONTEXT to explain ONE REASON FOR POSTING. I've entertained responses because I think everyone should have a chance to explain themselves.

Look, do what you want. Think what you want. I don't care.

I'm done.

[bored]

I, for one, want details for the popcorn value.

I remember that Star Wars log, pure gold.

[Meg]

@thenomain i upvoted before i got to the 'I'm done' line. let's be clear. i am not upvoting for that line; i was upvoting this line: 'you'll have to sit there smugly upvoting each other with being right.'

[Thenomain]

Okay, done in a moment.

@apos said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

I really think you should just reflect on that

I have been.

You might have your underwear in a twist over that 10%, but your disingenuous harping on it is just drawing this out.

Ditto to @Meg .

(edit) Not making a new thread. Man I want to give you people a place to vent, but I suck, I can't prostrate myself enough for you people, I can't manage to change myself, whatever.

[Kanye Qwest]

@thenomain said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

Okay, done in a moment.

@apos said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

I really think you should just reflect on that

I have been.

You might have your underwear in a twist over that 10%, but your disingenuous harping on it is just drawing this out.

Ditto to @Meg .

(edit) Making a new thread for you two, because you seem to want it.

Honey, NO

you are both being ridiculous and not fooling anyone who is not also as irrationally salty as you are.

My stomach hurts for you. Just stop.

[Meg]

@thenomain said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

(edit) Not making a new thread. Man I want to give you people a place to vent, but I suck, I can't prostrate myself enough for you people, I can't manage to change myself, whatever.

i'm not asking you to prostrate yourself, theno. i'm really not. i don't wanna vent about you. i just don't think you understand how some of your posts have come off implying that people are horrible staffers. and if you think so, i mean, you can. but they are my friends and i am always gonna disagree.

(so everyone can take anything i say with a grain of salt, ofc. because i am not hiding that they are my friends.)

[Thenomain]

@kanye-qwest said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

My stomach hurts for you. Just stop.

You know, this may be one of the few times I've ever seen you care.

Sincerely: Thank you.

And yes, I finally got enough sense to stop spazzing. I keep telling you I have an easy trigger-button.

--

@meg said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

i'm not asking you to prostrate yourself, theno. i'm really not. i don't wanna vent about you. i just don't think you understand how some of your posts have come off implying that people are horrible staffers. and if you think so, i mean, you can. but they are my friends and i am always gonna disagree.

I don't know how I can better say "I was wrong" and "I don't intend for my word to be law".

I do have someone whispering in my ear about HOW I was wrong about this, but they saw the actual post that triggered me. Why would I say this if it weren't true? Because it's about someone else getting me straightened out, not about "OMG I HAVE FRIENDS!" which is my main problem of "prove these people exist" as an ask for evidence.

Is this where we've gotten to in this hobby? On the Internet? Where one person says "I hate this thing!" and everyone who doesn't hate that thing has to defend it to the death?

People have hated things long before the internet came around, and fist-fights and dead Hamiltons have happened over it.

I try not to be that person who defends their actions with RL situations. My cat died in my arms and I'm a wreck. My meds are no longer balancing my anxiety. I panic when cornered. I get information overload and don't know how to defend myself against people whose opinion I think is worth every bit as much as my own.

These are not excuses worth a dime. I can be a shit-lord and I don't know how to fix it. I recognize that I have to fix it (and if giving some fault to shitty actors is bad, then I'll be bad) but I will not ask you people to do so. Hell, I didn't even ask Spirit Lake staff to fix it, no matter what they might think. I got caught in an anxiety-depression loop. I'm sorry. Believe me or not.

My opinion is and always will be but one. That's really the opinion of everyone here on Soapbox.

[Meg]

@thenomain you are right that there is probably an over exuberance, probably, to defend things that we like. and probably also just a lot of miscommunication around this whole topic.

i am sorry about your cat, theno. that is rough.

[Goldfish]

@flitcraft said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

@goldfish said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

As for my opinion: Straight up, I really think that if you want to criticize the game being advertised, open up a thread in the Hog Pit and do it there.
...
And locking also blocks out positive feedback. I know I go on HorrorMU's ad thread to evangelize when there is an update and positivity is NOT a bad thing. It's an awesome thing and we all could use more of it.

Allowing 'positive feedback' in public and walling off criticism behind an opt-in forum that lots of people don't read (because it's mean) or don't know about is bad policy. It defeats half the purpose of the community.

You're right. I reread my post and it's a double standard and it's no better. Bad Goldfish.

[Thenomain]

@meg

Thank you.

It doesn't excuse me, but thank you. What has changed between yesterday and today that people will consider it "bad form" to try to push me?

If we gave that same understanding and consideration from word go, this board wouldn't have the problems that it has.

But thank you. I am friends with two people who lost their parents over the holidays, one on Christmas. My spazz attacks are worth ridicule because in the end what am I getting upset about? Seriously. What kind of idiot am I?

[Paris]

@thenomain This is where I remind you gently that you are struggling with your mental health, and your meds are not being effective, and you are under RL stress which compounds the other two; and thus flagellating yourself as shit compared to those who are 'really' suffering does not help you or anyone. You are suffering.

This is not an excuse, but it is a reason.

This is not about willpower or mind over matter or moral weakness.

There are techniques that can help to a degree sometimes; I'm sure you know about things like meditation, deep breathing, reducing outside sources of anxiety, etc, and I don't want to be patronizing.

I hope you can get your medication situation straightened out, because you will probably not realise just how unmoored you have been until your brain is chemically back to its proper balance, and I hope that at least at that point the self-recrimination will ease up.

[Too Old For This]

@thenomain The human kind. Honestly? I think we're all more critical of each other on the forum than we normally would be. I don't think there's any one particular reason for it, either, its just a thing that happens for a number of different and changing reasons. I think we're also more sensitive in this forum than we would otherwise show to people, ultimately for the same different and changing reasons. Keep working at it, its really all any of us can do.

[Misadventure]

@apos I can confirm there are several people, myself included, who no longer find it productive to even mention criticisms about games you and Hellfrog are involved in. Those players either attempt to avoid your attention or opt not to play games you have significant say in.

Is that something you should consider?

I think so, despite that I acknowledge that creators are best at creating, and you can't please everyone, and that the drive to work and create can also power a kind of certainty that is easily seen as, and can be, arrogance and ego service.

But whatever.

[Pandora]

At this point, you're all about as off-topic as criticisms in an ad thread.

[Rucket]

@thenomain said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

Is this where we've gotten to in this hobby? On the Internet? Where one person says "I hate this thing!" and everyone who doesn't hate that thing has to defend it to the death?

Yes. But things have been here for quite some time, at least online. You're not alone in noticing a circle jerk of defensive behavior in this whole situation.

Honestly, I'd like to petition @Arkandel to take away the upvote button. I just don't think it serves a good purpose anymore.

[Paris]

@rucket said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

Honestly, I'd like to petition @Arkandel to take away the upvote button. I just don't think it serves a good purpose anymore.

All (edit for clarity: removing that feature) does is encourage more '^', 'yeah!' and 'me too' posts.

[Arkandel]

This thread is in the 'mildly constructive' section.

If people want to dogpile or point out personality flaws of Theno's, or Arx staff's, or anyone else's please go somewhere else to do it.

[Thenomain]

@too-old-for-this said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

@thenomain The human kind. Honestly? I think we're all more critical of each other on the forum than we normally would be. I don't think there's any one particular reason for it, either, its just a thing that happens for a number of different and changing reasons.

It's Wora Culture:

--

And @Paris, I thank you, I really do, but as many people have said, it's up to me to fix. I won't ask for volunteers, I feel horribly bad talking to friends, because they have their own problems. I feel like shit 99% of the time that I'm not good enough, that I'm not calm enough, that I'm not living up to my potential, that I've failed people who have trust in me, and even through all that I've never publicly mentioned any of this on the board because that's not going to change who I am.

Apos has it 90% right. As knowing is only half the battle, and nobody can be reasonably asked upon to help, then one has to at the very least give understanding that people are who they are.

And here we are, with a keyboard and an audience and how easy is it to be to bang out a frustration, with no consideration to what's being said. Even people who are not aged Woraites fall into it, because that's the Done Thing.

I hate it as much as I hate myself for participating in it.

--

@rucket said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

You're not alone in noticing a circle jerk of defensive behavior in this whole situation.

Meg was honest about it.

KQ hit the breaks on it.

Saosmash talked to me in private about it.

Apos...was Apos about it.

It's easy to like your friends and think they're the bee's knees. I personally consider the +1 harmless most of the time. As long as nobody takes it seriously, the worst of it is that people congratulate each other.

One of the first things that happened on The Reach was Roanoke removed friends of his from staff for harassing another player for playing blatantly gay characters. Seeing your friends in an honest light is hard.

Everyone I consider a friend has the ability, and has on multiple occasions, told me when I've crossed the line without doing so in defensive of something they like. It's the difference between "you're being shit toward me by attacking something I like" and "you have no right to dislike things I like".

(You were right @skew. Sorry.)

I have just as much right to dislike things as everyone else has the right to like them. Where I was wrong was not in that I had a complaint, it's how the complaint came out.

--

The Main Complaint: If you do not know me, do not tell me what I think, what I like, or what I want. You have no intrinsic right to do this to anyone, let alone me. I feel that Spirit Lake staff, in their understandable frustration, betrayed this, which means they may betray this to others.

I may be wrong. I hope to god that I'm wrong. It comes with the context of "understandable frustration", but there you go.

No, you don't get any more proof. Take my word or not. Think critically. Be a responsible netizen.

[Prototart]

@rucket said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

@thenomain said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

Is this where we've gotten to in this hobby? On the Internet? Where one person says "I hate this thing!" and everyone who doesn't hate that thing has to defend it to the death?

Yes. But things have been here for quite some time, at least online. You're not alone in noticing a circle jerk of defensive behavior in this whole situation.

i have literally no knowledge of or tbh interest in the place so this isn't a reference to anything there but 10000% theres a period where ppl will defend even the nastiest stuff bc ~well but it's NEW~ or w/e, esp if its popular, esp if its not just popular but a bandwagon cool kids place, and v often excusing stuff and defending stuff will turn into or just like from moment 1 be attacking the person w the temerity to mention the time somebody walked into the middle of the party and took a giant shit on the rug

[Paris]

@thenomain said in criticism not allowed in ad threads is only enforcing a false positive, prove me wrong:

And @Paris, I thank you, I really do, but as many people have said, it's up to me to fix. I won't ask for volunteers, I feel horribly bad talking to friends, because they have their own problems. I feel like shit 99% of the time that I'm not good enough, that I'm not calm enough, that I'm not living up to my potential, that I've failed people who have trust in me, and even through all that I've never publicly mentioned any of this on the board because that's not going to change who I am.

I'm only saying that yes, while it is absolutely vital that you take responsibility for yourself, your self-recrimination that you aren't necessarily really suffering is only going to do you harm, and may be exacerbated by the lack of effective meds.

Also, it is the privilege of a friend to be there for a friend who's struggling. The lie of mental illness is that it tells us that we shouldn't burden our friends with ourselves, that we are shit, and that we must isolate ourselves.

That is dangerous thinking in the long run, and in the short term it leads to emotional self-harm and isolation.

We're not close friends, but I remember you all the way back from the very early 90s on PernMUSH, where we RPed together sometimes and you were a kind and helpful guy. We have all changed, but you are, in many ways, still that guy. I have genuine faith in you, and I really hope that things can improve for you, especially with the meds.