How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep

[Ghost]

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Ghost said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Ghost said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@peasoupling said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

Like, seriously, some people's writing throws red flags all over the place.

Surprising nobody, I am often made uncomfortable by the writing of others.
Unfortunately staff frown on my constant reports regarding the Oxford comma and ending sentences with a preposition.

What, are you on?

In that sentence, the comma has turned 'on' into an adjective so it isn't a preposition anymore. Fail.

So you're saying that you prefer the comma before, during, or after?

Fuck you.

[Derp]

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

ending sentences with a preposition.

...has been acceptable for generations and the prohibition against such was prescriptivist bullshit from people that wanted to make English sound more like Latin, so nyah.

[Tinuviel]

@Derp said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

ending sentences with a preposition.

...has been acceptable for generations and the prohibition against such was prescriptivist bullshit from people that wanted to make English sound more like Latin, so nyah.

Just because something is acceptable doesn't mean it's right.
I also don't care about prepositions, I just couldn't think of any other grammatical things that matter this early in the morning.

[Ghost]

@Derp said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

ending sentences with a preposition.

...has been acceptable for generations and the prohibition against such was prescriptivist bullshit from people that wanted to make English sound more like Latin, so nyah.

Is there some sort of grammar book that supports this? If it's not on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, then where?

@Tinuviel

[Derp]

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Derp said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

ending sentences with a preposition.

...has been acceptable for generations and the prohibition against such was prescriptivist bullshit from people that wanted to make English sound more like Latin, so nyah.

Just because something is acceptable doesn't mean it's right.
I also don't care about prepositions, I just couldn't think of any other grammatical things that matter this early in the morning.

Conjugation.

[Auspice]

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Derp said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Tinuviel said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

ending sentences with a preposition.

...has been acceptable for generations and the prohibition against such was prescriptivist bullshit from people that wanted to make English sound more like Latin, so nyah.

Just because something is acceptable doesn't mean it's right.
I also don't care about prepositions, I just couldn't think of any other grammatical things that matter this early in the morning.

Motherfuckers who don't use apostrophes in their poses.

I see you asshole with your
'He isnt paying attention so he doesnt notice when they....'

[faraday]

@Ghost said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

This is something MU needs to figure out to evolve, IMO.

Fear of retaliation is a legitimate concern when we're talking about RL harassment. I understand why people won't always want to risk speaking out against powerful people, bosses who can ruin their careers, people they have to see every day, folks they're living with, someone who might cause them physical harm, etc.

But these are games we're talking about here. The scope of any potential "retaliation" is so minimal that it's almost hard for me to call it that with a straight face. Speak up. If staff won't act to your satisfaction, type QUIT and good riddance. If people stop tolerating toxic games, then staff everywhere will be motivated to address the toxicity or else they won't have any players. It really is just that simple IMHO.

[Ghost]

@faraday While I generally agree, I think that's a bit of a game of chicken.

If you're going to vote with your feet you have to accept that this means you may not end up with a MU to play on. Voting with your feet in MU can literally mean limiting your play options to having multiple nights with no roleplay at all. Is voring with your feet enough to risk not participating in the hobby to stand your ground on your ethics?

I was able to answer that question, for myself, of course.

Which is why I think people threaten to vote with their feet, but ultimately end up letting it go and just dealing with the problem or trying to find some new place.

[Derp]

@faraday

And that is becoming vastly less of a concern every day. Once upon a time, there was a real worry about losing contact with an otherwise anonymous person that didn't want to share contact details because those were all mostly linked to real-life personas or niche RL sites.

Then we got instant messengers, and people started making burner e-mails, and Discord came along, and now there's AresCentral too, which makes all that even easier.

So what you can lose in the process of leaving a game has been greatly reduced, and setting up your own sandbox to tell stories in is dead simple now.

[faraday]

@Ghost said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

Is voring with your feet enough to risk not participating in the hobby to stand your ground on your ethics? I was able to answer that question, for myself, of course.

As was I, which is exactly my point. We're all adults here. We choose what we're willing to tolerate. No one else bears that responsibility for us.

That's why, to the original scenario posted, I say deal with it ICly. Play the concerned patron all, "Is this guy bugging you?" and let it play out. Dragging it OOC without any indication that there's a problem strikes me like someone wandering onto the set of Mad Men and being concerned that Don Draper is an a-hole. Unless you see Jon Hamm being creepy between takes, it's just fiction.

[saosmash]

I don't see any issue with checking in oocly with the player of the person who is potentially at risk of being creeped on to see if they are ok because the poses are throwing up red flags for them the way they are for you, or with intervening icly if it's IC for your character to do so, or with some combination of the above. IC is IC, but that doesn't mean it's impossible for we as players and writers to perceive what is happening and have ideas about what it could mean.

That said, I've charged in and +requested about IC/OOC creeping before on another party's behalf because we are socialized to not want to be a bother about things and many victims of grossness find reporting hard. With logs, it's still effective! Without logs it's just gossip.

[Sunny]

I have got to say, I have played one intentional creep in my years, and it was incredibly uncomfortable. Hats off to the people that can actually manage it, but I can do outright terrible evil way easier than I can do creeper. I sent myself into fits worrying that I was going to end up making someone else OOCly uncomfortable. Never doing THAT again, let me tell you.

[Altair]

@faraday said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

@Ghost said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

If you're going to vote with your feet you have to accept that this means you may not end up with a MU to play on. Voting with your feet in MU can literally mean limiting your play options to having multiple nights with no roleplay at all. Is voring with your feet enough to risk not participating in the hobby to stand your ground on your ethics? I was able to answer that question, for myself, of course.

As was I, which is exactly my point. We're all adults here. We choose what we're willing to tolerate. No one else bears that responsibility for us.

I had a conversation on this topic recently. The gist of it was, "either you can have boundaries for what you will or won't do, or you can have a lot of RP, not really both."

There seem to be a lot of players out there who offer a lot of RP and attention, but then gradually start to use that in order to push past the boundaries of others. They can do this because most people will think, "I'm not really comfortable with this, but if I don't suck it up the RP goes away."

It can be fairly difficult to set those boundaries when, well, we're all here to get RP and all. Which is why I'm not really opposed to helping out someone who might potentially be finding themselves in an uncomfortable situation, per the original scenario. I just maintain that the first approach should be an IC one, in the event that the interaction was in fact mutually desired.

[Sunny]

Can somebody explain to me why it's problematic behavior to go:

p X=You ok?

[Roz]

@Sunny

[Tinuviel]

@Sunny said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

Can somebody explain to me why it's problematic behavior to go:

p X=You ok?

It isn't. And anyone that says otherwise deserves a very long sideways glance with a dash of askance.

ETA: So long as you're ready to accept "Yes, I'm okay" at face value and move on.

[Sunny]

@Roz

I mean ASIDE from the fact that I'm not allowed to exist.

[surreality]

@Sunny said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

Can somebody explain to me why it's problematic behavior to go:

p X=You ok?

This would be my go-to, too, but I still had to seriously think about this one before posting.

When I first read the question, this was my reaction, and it's definitely a case of 'instinct'.

I know I've been in situations in which someone is engaging with me in a way that suggests that they have NOT read the room re: appropriate tone/behavior and there's a notable disconnect about cluing them in to why their actions are Not Cool even when I've said something to them. Needless to say, someone being 'lifeline person' in those situations would have been extremely helpful.

That said, I get why it's hard to be that person when it's a stranger. It is REALLY EASY to come across as 'wrongfunning someone' if they are perfectly OK with what's happening by asking if they're uncomfortable when they're not, which could in turn make both parties uncomfortable. So I get the hesitation or unease -- it's a case of 'do I save the seemingly harmless rabbit from that bear trap, or is the rabbit in on it with the bear'?

This issue on the whole is a case of 'err on the side of caution' or 'err on the side of protective instinct'.

In these cases, I'm heavily on the side of 'fuck caution, if they want to be mad at me for trying to help, let them' for the most part. If it's borderline or not super clear to me? I may go with caution instead.

[Sunny]

@surreality

I'm not in any way suggesting that people have to do this or it's a requirement or anything, it absolutely doesn't work like that.

I'm questioning why there is this enormous pushback on 'hey, you OK?' happening.

I want to know why the people who are objecting to a simple check-in are objecting to it.

ETA: Which is to say I agree with you on this; I am really interested in hearing the opposite perspective because I straight up don't understand it.

[Sunny]

Like seriously. Is anyone who is participating in this conversation going to be upset/offended if a stranger pages them to say 'hey, you OK?' Like, regardless of what it's about? The only person I can think of that would be bothered by it would a- only be bothered by it because they don't like OOC interaction AT ALL, and b- probably wouldn't even be bothered by this question because it's human caring about another human.