Diversity Representation in MU*ing

SparklesTheClown · Jul 4, 2020, 3:56 AM

Hot take: Saying and implying extremely awful things is a lot worse than the person on the receiving end of the awful things saying a relatively minor insult in response.

Tinuviel · Jul 4, 2020, 3:57 AM

Have you lot never interacted with Pandora before?

Caractus · Jul 4, 2020, 4:49 AM

As a black person who has recently marked their 15th year in this hobby, I find that wizzes love to reject your charbit or just straight up ban you if your char is black and they don't feel like having too many black charbits. That could be a factor.

I honestly prefer that to the long, agonizing discussions where the wizzes explain to me that my charbit is Not Thematic, Breaks Theme, or simply does not Mesh with the vision they had for the game because in this setting all the black people are somewhere over there, I guess, but not Here, and your insistence on playing one absolutely 100% is borne of gamebreaking theme destroying malice, because who would want to play a black person, anyway?

I used to dunk on Shang and other sex games but at least they don't subject you to a full background check and interview session for having the temerity to rp as a black person, and I really appreciate that.

GreenFlashlight · Jul 4, 2020, 4:50 AM

@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

I don't hate or fear anyone for having gender dysphoria.

I doubt anyone here is judging you for your private feelings. They're upset because of the actions you take by continuing to post TERF talking points.

Caractus · Jul 4, 2020, 4:54 AM

@GreenFlashlight said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

I don't hate or fear anyone for having gender dysphoria.

I doubt anyone here is judging you for your private feelings. They're upset because of the actions you take by continuing to post TERF talking points.

Based on attitudes like that, I recently concluded that people prefer Mu*ing as a small, obscure, sparsely populated hobby because they can be bigots in peace. Well, that and other things, such as the unique demographics of this hobby, the, um, Content, and so on.

We could market it to zoomers and black geeks such as myself, HELLO Project, and so on. I know lots of black people who roleplay on Twitter and Discord and could be acclimated to these kinds of games, and make Mu*ing popular and active but then....

SparklesTheClown · Jul 4, 2020, 5:01 AM

Text roleplaying isn't dying at all, it's as popular as ever, it's fucking huge. I've said for years, even back when I was batshit insane, the only reason MUSHing is so small is because people don't know it exists. Anyone I know who roleplays who I've ever told about MUSHing was like "holy shit that's awesome".

Also on the topic of banning races for there being "too much" of them, can we talk about how so many MUSHes have treated Asian culture like a weird trend that they have to ban or restrict? Like yeah, I get that there's people who do unfortunately bad portrayals of shit, but I can't be the only one who has seen MUSHes literally put Asian characters on a restricted list.

Like, considering that the vast majority of characters on most MUSHes are white, why is there never too many white characters? (I shouldn't have to say this, but given how this thread has gone a few times, I want to make clear that I'm not advocating that we restrict any race, I'm being hyperbolic)

Caractus · Jul 4, 2020, 5:06 AM

@HelloProject

I just realized white people are proscribing the racial makeup of their games and justifying it by saying that they just want to ensure the games are Inclusive.

So... You, as a white person, are enacting Inclusivity... by telling me what to play.

????

It is also worth noting that certain forms of Pretend are allowed, but other forms are not.

I have had people calmly say they don't like roleplay with black characters to my face. All sorts of reasons are given: they find my character disturbing, they aren't into that sort of thing (as if we HAVE to Ts), they find my character theme breaking and distracting, too sexual...there's always something.

SparklesTheClown · Jul 4, 2020, 5:25 AM

Non-white characters are "theme breaking" is always hilarious because it literally outs either people's elementary school understanding of history, or they're playing a theme that very specifically went out of its way to say all the characters are white "for some reason".

There are very few truly racially homogeneous places on Earth, and this isn't like some modern thing. People really have this fascination with medieval Europe being 100% white and anything to the contrary is SJW propaganda. Fuck actual history and art I guess lmao.

Kanye Qwest · Jul 4, 2020, 5:41 AM

man this thread was doing pretty good for like 30 pages

ps grape juice is delicious

Tinuviel · Jul 4, 2020, 5:43 AM

@Kanye-Qwest I like old grape juice that was stored in a barrel for a while.

That still counts, right?

Kanye Qwest · Jul 4, 2020, 5:43 AM

@Tinuviel yes, i am feeling generous after a very nice birthday party

SparklesTheClown · Jul 4, 2020, 6:01 AM

This thread was never going to be 100% perfectly civil forever. I bet anything that there's people right now fucking stewing who haven't even posted yet, and someone just hasn't said the right trigger of things to make them actually post and pop off with some crazy bullshit.

But I think that stuff like this has served a purpose, because now in this very thread I can go "see that is what shitty behavior is, you can probably stop worrying if you aren't going to do that".

Ominous · Jul 4, 2020, 6:01 AM

What about cereal juice that's been distilled and stored in a barrel for a while?

SparklesTheClown · Jul 4, 2020, 6:02 AM

@Ominous said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

What about cereal juice that's been distilled and stored in a barrel for a while?

Ew are you talking about kombucha?

Ominous · Jul 4, 2020, 6:02 AM

@HelloProject

Whiskey.

Three-Eyed Crow · Jul 4, 2020, 6:05 AM

@HelloProject
Mostly I'm trying to figure out how the detour into TERF-ism happened, but that is the cultural moment in which we live, so!

Rinel · Jul 4, 2020, 6:11 AM

@Three-Eyed-Crow said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@HelloProject
Mostly I'm trying to figure out how the detour into TERF-ism happened, but that is the cultural moment in which we live, so!

Someone used the "male socialization" dogwhistle and some inquiries were made as to whether it was innocent (it wasn't).

ETA:
@Tinuviel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

Have you lot never interacted with Pandora before?

From what I've seen in the past she's an asshole about the actions people take, not an asshole about who people are. So, no, this is a new and particularly ugly side of a person to see, but if there's another Tyche lurking around I guess I'm glad I know who it is.

il-volpe · Jul 4, 2020, 6:13 AM

No newcomer on Game of Bones ever apped a PoC character without first asking me if a Black or Asian character would be approved. I figured that it was because Blood of Dragons does not allow them and it was a GoT/Medieval-fantasy MU problem, but I guess I'm unsurprised to hear they 'break theme' elsewhere.

My answer to it was to dump a shitload of medieval-costumed PoC on the 'suggested character pics' page. I don't know if this had an effect. In the context of MUs, I don't think representation among the PCs is of much interest, the more important thing is to avoid being a shithole where players have to deal with bigotry at playtime.

Edited to add that by 'players' I mean to include players who are people of colour, women, LGBTQA, and disabled, all of whom you ought to assume to be present.

GreenFlashlight · Jul 4, 2020, 6:10 AM

@Caractus said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@GreenFlashlight said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

@Pandora said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

I don't hate or fear anyone for having gender dysphoria.

I doubt anyone here is judging you for your private feelings. They're upset because of the actions you take by continuing to post TERF talking points.

Based on attitudes like that, I recently concluded that people prefer Mu*ing as a small, obscure, sparsely populated hobby because they can be bigots in peace.

I might be misunderstanding you, but personally, I don't care about anyone's feelings. If you're* being shitty to trans people, then your shittiness is not mitigated by whether you feel fearful or hateful during your shitty behavior. Even if I were inclined to police someone's thoughts, I still wouldn't want to capitulate to people who change the subject from their demonstrable actions to their undisprovable feelings. That's a trap, and I don't like falling for it.

*generic "you," not you personally

Tinuviel · Jul 4, 2020, 6:28 AM

@Rinel said in Diversity Representation in MU*ing:

From what I've seen in the past she's an asshole about the actions people take, not an asshole about who people are.

To many shitty people, sexuality and gender identity aren't who people are. They're choices being made.

I'm not saying that's how Pandora views it, just that it's hardly outside the realm of possibility.