Optional Realities & Project Redshift
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Hey,
So I'm going to take... A week (think I can do this in a week) and re-read through this entire monster of a thread. I'll then brew on it for a week, so in 2 weeks time, I'll get back to you all with any significant changes we'll be making.
In the meantime though Crayon will continue business as usual with our weekly updates.
Talk to you in 2 weeks. -
@Jeshin said:
Hey,
So I'm going to take... A week (think I can do this in a week) and re-read through this entire monster of a thread. I'll then brew on it for a week, so in 2 weeks time, I'll get back to you all with any significant changes we'll be making.
In the meantime though Crayon will continue business as usual with our weekly updates.
Talk to you in 2 weeks.Couldn't people just go to your website, if they were inclined to, to find your updates?
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See, that's just more "science fiction is better than fantasy" @Lithium. You should be ashamed of yourself.
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Sorry. Screwed up when mandatorily re-logging in after the gratuitous change of the week. That was obviously me, but thought it should be clear.
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Skimmed most of the last fw pages but I has a question, How is turning of a comments section a bad thing?
Internet comment sections are turly the lowest rung of the communication ladder, right below attempting to fart out words.
Serious go you youtube you will see I am right.
That aside this thread is like watch differing evangelist snipe at each other. -
@Jeshin said:
As to the phrasing, I'm probably not going to change it.
What a surprise.
There is a certain amount of salesmanship going on and yes I know you (most of you?) find it distasteful but it is what it is.
And what it is—given the 384 messages deep evidence provided—is poor salesmanship.
Talk to you in 2 weeks. -
Read and discuss Sabrelon's article on Customer Service and MUDs!
http://optionalrealities.com/customer-service-and-muds/
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=306.0Enter our contest on Monster/Antagonist design!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=301.0Participate in community gaming on League of Legends and more!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=210.0Join discussion on the merits of permanent death as a feature!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=213.0 -
Read and discuss Apollo's new article on where to get started in game design!
http://optionalrealities.com/so-you-wanna-make-a-game/
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=310.0Keep abreast of discussion regarding an Evennia conversion of the OpenRPI engine!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=309.0Join and conribute to discussion regarding roleplay, theme, and lore documentation!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=181.0Or make a submission to our September contest, by designing a monster or villain!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=302.0 -
Read and discuss Jeshin's article on community managing and handling trolls!
http://optionalrealities.com/the-community-manager-vs-the-troll/
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=320.0Contribute to discussion on the possibility of porting the OpenRPI engine to Evennia!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=309.0Engage in discussion of the differences and overlap between one's community and one's game!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=315.0Submit an entry to our Villain/Monster concept contest!
http://optionalrealities.com/forums/index.php?topic=301.0 -
I wish I hadn't bothered to read this thread. All it did was annoy the shit out of me and make me want to stay very, very far away from Optional Realities and everything involved with it. Condescending, lying, generally icky behavior...yeah, no. @Jeshin, @Crayon, I can't imagine you're doing anything to help your cause at all, here.
So sayeth someone from the peanut gallery with not much of a horse in this race.
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But @Sunny! Science fiction is just different from fantasy, not better!
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@WTFE said:
But @Sunny! Science fiction is just different from fantasy, not better!
I don't get this one. Someone explain please.
“If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe.”
― Carl Sagan, Cosmos -
@Thenomain said:
@WTFE said:
But @Sunny! Science fiction is just different from fantasy, not better!
I don't get this one. Someone explain please.
One of the Optional Realities carnival hucksters boiled down this entire thread to (paraphrased) "this entire debate is just like science fiction vs. fantasy and I'm not going to get bogged down in it".
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Hey,
I am still looking at changes to our promotional methods, like I said I would, my dog of 16 years was put down today (long life, not sudden, expected) and I've also been dealing with some behind the scenes stuff.
I miss the 2 week mark, I apologize, still committed to doing what I said I was going to do.
Side note, @Sunny please point out where we lied as I take that very seriously and have (on several instances) modified language on the site to try and avoid misleading people.
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@WTFE said:
One of the Optional Realities carnival hucksters boiled down this entire thread to (paraphrased) "this entire debate is just like science fiction vs. fantasy and I'm not going to get bogged down in it".
That's right. I think I reacted similarly at the time (c.f. 'You are not entitled to your opinion'.) While I'm not opposed to standing against our group of Mushers, I don't disagree that trying to continue this conversation is a lost cause when, as you and others say, most points of contention are outright dismissed. It's like arguing with a wall.
@Jeshin, I'm sorry for your loss. Remember Rule #1 in any hobby: Your life always, always, always comes first.
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@Jeshin: Sorry to hear about your dog. Not going to let my distaste for your site colour my humanity. Deal with the dog (and, presumably the rest of the family) before some stupid pretendy fun-time games.
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@Sunny said:
Condescending, lying, generally icky behavior...
Can you provide some examples of this? As far as I'm aware if there's been any lying it was unintentional. If you think we've been condescending I feel like maybe you've missed the tone of some of the posts fired our way. I've actually been making a point of trying to keep the tone of discussion civil, but it eventually reached a point where in order to do that, the only responses to this thread I've been making have been updates. For almost a month now.
@WTFE said:
But @Sunny! Science fiction is just different from fantasy, not better!
Yes, debating the preferences of a group or community with regards to things like permanent death and automated systems is pointless. They're requirements for games that join the OR community. We've considered changes, but nobody's really given us a compelling reason to. If that niche doesn't include your game or your preferred game, that's not a qualitative judgment of that game, but an indication that said game doesn't fit the interests of the community that we're building. We're not here to get mired into some sort of MUD vs. MUSH debate, either. Multiple games in our community are MUSH, MOO, etc. and the distinction doesn't especially matter.
I haven't found any of the arguments and debates made to have been particularly compelling, and few if any of them seem to have a point besides antagonizing people in the Advertisements board. Some of what @Thenomain has offered has been interesting, and some of their criticisms have helped us to refine the way we approach promotion or the ideas that we've discussed through articles.
Most of what I've seen, though, have been personal attacks and strawmen. We're more than happy to read criticism and if people have ideas as far as our approach to promotion I think Jeshin and I would both be happy to read them. I'm not here, however, to debate MUDs vs. MUSHes or our requirements for inclusion as a community partner or some of these other things that have been coming up, though Jeshin is likely more than happy to refine our requirements as we go. Personally, I don't much care about the distinction between MUDs and MUSHes because as far as I see the distinction is generally pretty small and getting smaller by the day. Our community includes games regardless of their codebase or what they call themselves, based on the criteria we've been questioned on time and again. I'd be willing to wager that most roleplay-centric games, regardless of whether they're MUD or MUSH, qualify, so long as they include permanent death. Debating our desire to see permanent death and automated systems in our community partners is about as useful as trying to argue that JRPGs should be included on a site dedicated to fighting games.
@Thenomain said:
While I'm not opposed to standing against our group of Mushers, I don't disagree that trying to continue this conversation is a lost cause when, as you and others say, most points of contention are outright dismissed. It's like arguing with a wall.
I'm not standing against your 'group of MUSHers'. I'm asserting the validity of our criteria and preferences, while making no assertions at all about the validity of your own. If you have points of contention I'd love to hear them, but generally speaking I'm pretty sure arguing to change somebody's mind and expecting it to actually happen is a bad idea when we're talking about preferences, and that's what most of these points of contention have been. Admittedly, maybe I've missed some valid points. They're probably pretty easy to miss in the barrages of personal attacks.
@Thenomain said:
You are not entitled to your opinion.
How is OR as a community not entitled to define the criteria of games that the community includes? How are we as individuals not entitled to determine our own preferences with regards to what sort of games we enjoy playing, and what qualities those games possess? I'm certainly entitled to an opinion, and preferences, and it's going to take a lot better than a handful of people predicating their arguments on personal attacks or strawmen to convince me that I am not, in fact, entitled to my preferences.
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It's like you read the words but don't retain them at all. It's amazing.
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@Jeshin said:
I am still looking at changes to our promotional methods, like I said I would, my dog of 16 years was put down today (long life, not sudden, expected) and I've also been dealing with some behind the scenes stuff.
That sucks. My genuine sympathies. We had a family dog (Australian Shepherd) that lived to be 17 when I was a kid, and she was a family institution at that point. Losing her was rough.
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Hey,
I appreciate the sympathies, Ali was a great dog (mostly my mothers in the end) and like I said it wasn't sudden but it did take up a considerable amount of my energy.
My girlfriend Hex (WildGiller) actually did some artwork
http://orig14.deviantart.net/b64e/f/2013/189/7/4/amy_and_ali_by_wildgiller-d6cmiy3.jpg
Not that it's on topic, but it makes me feel better to show it. It's a pretty nice picture to remember by.
Thread continue onward.
