Paying for a MU*?

[thhppbbbt]

I was reminded in another thread of a thought that's occurred to me several times over the last couple decades (haha, I feel old). I've heard often that staff on MU*s aren't paid, their time is volunteered. Is that unlikely to change? If you were playing on a great game that you really enjoyed, would you be willing to pay? How much? For what purposes (i.e., to support the server, to support staff effort, something else)? On an ongoing basis, or as a tip-jar model? How would you feel about a game that openly asked "if you like what we're doing here, kick in a few bucks?" Do you think there would be side effects?

[Derp]

Making it voluntary is fine. You'd always have a few people willing to pitch in. The rub comes when people start expecting things in return, or when staff wants to make it mandatory.

MU's exist in great numbers. There is always a free version of whatever you are offering. Basic capitalism says that this will go poorly. If you implement a pay-to-win strategy and give people extra perks, you're going to go against some pretty longstanding views about how players and their characters should be positioned.

It's generally not a bad idea to go 'here is a Patreon if you want to kick in a few bucks, and it is not required', making sure to show gratitude without showing favoritism.

But I don't think you're ever gonna get a play-to-play game off the ground. if people are gonna pay for a game they're likely to do it on an MMO or something with better graphics and more immediate returns.

MU's just aren't the model for profit.

[Three-Eyed Crow]

I would probably never do a purely pay a pay-for-play game. It's the reason I didn't get into MMOs. I just don't really do subscriptions for my gaming, it's not even a MU thing, and is unlikely to change.

There are Patreons I throw a few dollars to a month and I'd gladly do that for MUs I'm a dedicated player on if it was a voluntary thing/you didn't get perks for doing it. A MU I staffed on ages ago asked us to chip in a little a year to help cover server costs. It was nominal and made sense.

[Juniper]

Not to mention, accepting payment in your MUD does not mean that you will be making a significant amount of cash. 20 loyal players tossing in $5 a month is $100 a month. That's coffee and server hosting money, not "quit your day job and code MUDs full-time" money.

[Rucket]

I am reminded of Wes Platt and Chiaroscuro and Otherspace when they tried to add microtransactions to MUing. If there was a "Donate for Hosting" button on a wiki, I might pitch in $5 here or there and I'm sure others would too, but anything beyond that, I dunno.

[mietze]

Given how people behave on free mushes, as well as the level of fairness paranoia, i would be very reticent to set up a way people could pay, and potentially have to deal with "I paid my $3, how dare you not give me x." Also, what happens when you need to ban someone? I could see certain creepers really putting pressure after spending a significant amount, because I have seen that happen in other orgs.

There have been a few failed attempts at doing this over the decades that I know about. But I would be leery about participating in one.

Unless the $$$ is enough for a runner and staff to not have day jobs, they would not have more time for the game, but then they'd have to deal with assholes who would say "I don't have to be patient, you're ripping me off. I paid you and I'm still not getting the timing/attention I deserve!!"

[Arkandel]

The problem with paying for anything is that... well, players are entitled enough as it is.

How long before someone throws that around? Don't think "you can't ban me, I paid!". That's easy to deal with. Think "you didn't ban him because he paid!" Staff is on the spot for looking like they favored someone without dollar signs in the mix.

And let's not even go into expectations from coders ("your code is buggier than the other game that's actually free"), admins ("I've been in CGen for three days, imagine if I hadn't paid!") etc.

The question isn't really if it's worth paying for a MU*. The real question is whether it's worth the hassle getting paid to run one.

[Snackness]

@mietze Your take is basically my take. I would, as a player, probably be willing to throw some money at a place I really liked. Maybe. As an admin? I am not taking ANYONE'S money. Because that creates expectations.

[mietze]

@snackness not only player expectations but also depending on a lot of factors some tax/legal ones as well.

[silverfox]

I have an admin that has a patron that I happily toss money at. Not much. A very little. But my game name ain't attached and I will never make the explicit connection between me and this admin.

[il-volpe]

I was once invited/hired to TS people on a game where you paid like $5 to join and then could hire certain characters to TS and pay them for the session, and the game owners took a percentage. This seemed feasible but I don't think it lasted long.

I used to ask players to give to certain charities in response to certain events. But I also always made it clear that it wasn't mandatory and that I wouldn't know if you did it or not.

[Derp]

@il-volpe said in Paying for a MU*?:

I was once invited/hired to TS people on a game where you paid like $5 to join and then could hire certain characters to TS and pay them for the session, and the game owners took a percentage. This seemed feasible but I don't think it lasted long.

I used to ask players to give to certain charities in response to certain events. But I also always made it clear that it wasn't mandatory and that I wouldn't know if you did it or not.

You better be real good at TS if I'm paying for it.

[bear_necessities]

@il-volpe lol I do not believe this for a second, there's no way anyone would pay $$ to TS when there are pleeenty of people who give it around for free.

ETA but seriously how did this work?? Was it per pose, or just per TS event? How long were sessions, what was the admin cut? lol This sounds like a lucrative side hustle.

[Ganymede]

@derp said in Paying for a MU*?:

You better be real good at TS if I'm paying for it.

[il-volpe]

@bear_necessities It was 1993.

It was by the hour, but there was some mechanism where the virtual sex-worker had to pose at a certain frequency. I don't remember much. I may have earned like, $30.

[thesuntsar]

@bear_necessities said in Paying for a MU*?:

@il-volpe lol I do not believe this for a second, there's no way anyone would pay $$ to TS when there are pleeenty of people who give it around for free.

ETA but seriously how did this work?? Was it per pose, or just per TS event? How long were sessions, what was the admin cut? lol This sounds like a lucrative side hustle.

I'm telling you, we can make this work

[bear_necessities]

@thesuntsar I'm spinning up the server now. TS: The Sex Mush: THE MUSH is coming!

[thesuntsar]

@bear_necessities said in Paying for a MU*?:

@thesuntsar I'm spinning up the server now. TS: The Sex Mush: THE MUSH is coming!

I can't breathe again lol

[il-volpe]

@bear_necessities

[Juniper]

@il-volpe said in Paying for a MU*?:

I was once invited/hired to TS people on a game where you paid like $5 to join and then could hire certain characters to TS and pay them for the session, and the game owners took a percentage. This seemed feasible but I don't think it lasted long.

What an entrepreneur, LOL. Monetizing TS takes some balls.