Sorry, it has been so many years since I read any of the books that I have zero memory at all, so I wasn't sure. From what's being discussed though, I think that's what I'd advise. If you kept it as simple as possible like that, FS3 probably wouldn't need a whole lot of wrangling for it.
@derp said in Wheel of Time MU*:
This is pretty much what Dev and I decided to do.
We get that it isn't the super dooper complicated channeling system from the books but also:
Considering the length of your 6,000-word Channeling House Rule page, I would say that you've actually got a pretty complicated system at work. Sure, it's not coded, but you've got a 2-3-step Compulsion system, a condition-based exhaustion system, multiple rules about splitting dice pools to split weaves... it's a pretty complicated system.
The system I was talking about literally just had the three numbers. So you'd share them with the person you were sparring/fighting/whatever, and they'd be like, "Okay, so my CMS (Channling Mastery Strength) is lower than yours, but my CMF (Channeling Mastery Finesse) is higher, so I can't stand up to your strength head on, but I can weave faster and better, so I better be dodgy." For non-channelers it was more like, "Okay, my WM (Weaponmastery) is 10 points higher than yours, so I've got a slight edge, but that's it" or "My WM is 50 points lower than yours, you're definitely going to win this fight, let's see how it happens."
Oh, yeah, sorry. I meant code-wise.
Not the actual system-system.
Should have clarified! You can do it with the FS3 code easily enough if you aren't concerned about it being some kind of FS3-combat-like-thing.
Using the Tat's spell system from Spirit Lake is exactly what I was doing with Patterns of an Age. It works pretty well for a lot of things, but some weaves are just going to be difficult to put into that context... but that's fine really.
Tat's system is awesome, but unless you've got the time (I turned out not to), I'd stick with regular FS3 and just some simple guidelines/weapons/skills to mimic channeling like some of the other magic based games have (the nazi punching one I can't remember the name of, for example)
@wildbaboons said in Wheel of Time MU*:
Using the Tat's spell system from Spirit Lake is exactly what I was doing with Patterns of an Age. It works pretty well for a lot of things, but some weaves are just going to be difficult to put into that context... but that's fine really.
Tat's system is awesome, but unless you've got the time (I turned out not to), I'd stick with regular FS3 and just some simple guidelines/weapons/skills to mimic channeling like some of the other magic based games have (the nazi punching one I can't remember the name of, for example)
That's what I did. Now, if those are balanced is an entirely different issue. But mimicking spells but are actually weapons in FS3 code? It works. You can do it.
I'll just be over here waiting for Tat to put that magic system as an Ares plugin. One day. I can dream.
@wildbaboons said in Wheel of Time MU*:
(the nazi punching one I can't remember the name of, for example)
The Savage Skies. It's actually the third FS3 game that Blu and I have opened that has magic in it (one in FS3.2 and now two in FS3.3). In each of those three cases (The Fifth World, The Eighth Sea, and The Savage Skies), we designed the magic system around what FS3 could do.
In The Fifth World (FS3.2), we just made magic like any other weapon or armor, and put severe limits on what magic users could do/wear. We went too far on our restrictions on that game, because I tend to be leery of magic being too powerful.
In The Eighth Sea (super-early FS3.3), we added a few other codified things that magic users could do besides just weapons (no armor, since it was a pirate game and not many people wore armor), but they were all outside of combat, or just provided small modifiers in combat. Magic characters could only use their AoE attacks a few times, and their more powerful single-target attacks a few more times, but both had limited "ammo," while the defensive "weapon" did not. We had exhaustion as a consequence of magic use, but it was all RPed, not coded. I think this was actually a very interesting magic system for FS3, even if it required a little ammo manipulation and uncoded rules. Sadly, we leaned too hard into monster-hunting and not hard enough into piracy on our pirate game, and all of the Staff had various life crises at the same time. The rules are still up at: http://the8thsea.wikidot.com/faith.
In The Savage Skies, we got a little more ambitious and included Advantages to track the ability to do different types of magic and full spell lists. But still, everything was designed to work inside the FS3 system; there was no magic healing, no damage-inducing shields, no immobilizing people (although that could be done with Distract, I suppose), no lifting people with telekinesis (mostly because we didn't have damage rules for dropping people off a zeppelin), no countering spells in combat, and other limitations imposed by the system. Exhaustion was mentioned, but not coded. Every character had the capability to learn magic, so we dodged balance issues in that way, but we still made magical attacks in the same realm of damage as pistols, rifles, and the like. I like what we had there, and that's my suggestion on how to generally set up magic on an original-theme game (while tuning it to your own setting, of course).
Unfortunately, if you're using an existing license like Wheel of Time or Lord of the Rings or Shadowrun or D&D, there are going to be some expectations on how magic works that don't fit with what FS3 can do (without a loooooooot of fudging). You either have to make changes to how magic works (you can't slice an attack weave because the system just can't handle it... but you can slice a tied or held weave, because we can handle that by having you use 'combat/pass' and do a versus roll), sometimes very significant changes, or you have to leave a ton of the fudging in the hands of the GMs (which means that your GMs have to really understand your house rules, which cuts down on the number of people who can GM for you), or you can do a lot of specialty coding -- and then you might be better off starting from scratch with your own system that's actually designed to do exactly what you want it to do.
First a caveat - this was over thirty years ago. Players' expectations were... different, to say the least.
But @seraphim73 probably remembers the WoT MUD we were on. Sure, it had a coded system but for a while it was just plain simply utterly irrelevant, to the point it was mostly ignored. Then we added more setting-appropriate stats (Flows, weaves, etc) but again, there were serious imbalances since everyone was a glass canon; dealing damage was far easier than taking it.
Yet ultimately that doesn't matter. Creating some sanity clauses and using consent encounters should deal with that. I don't think WoT is inherently a 'PvP' kind of setting; blasting Trollocs, having adventures trying to root out darkfriends and figuring out where ancient lost knowledge lies and playing politics should be where it's at.
A system should be able to work even just based on record-keeping just for major milestones. "Is this person strong enough in Water to learn this healing weave", "is this person skilled enough with sword forms to be on the path to Blademastery", etc.
The rest should fall into place if the game is set up to be fun otherwise, and it allows players to have stuff to work towards.
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU*:
A system should be able to work even just based on record-keeping just for major milestones. "Is this person strong enough in Water to learn this healing weave", "is this person skilled enough with sword forms to be on the path to Blademastery", etc.
I think a more generic accounting system than FS3 works for this.
Whether the stats are tracking my potential (Water-3, Spirit-5, Air-2 // Swordmastery-6), or tracking what I've been taught (Badass Water Weave #55 // Dance of the Crazy Waterbird) doesn't matter.
I need someplace to remind me what my character's limitations are, then I can go RP it accordingly. A simple dice system is fine, but even that is unnecessary if I can just see that Bob is stronger than me so I better just light him on fire.
Put me in the "less is more" camp when it comes to coding out systems in this world. Even the author couldn't seem to keep his power-levels coherent.
@krmbm
Yeah, this seems like something Traits + a d20 roller would work fine for if you just aren't going to sweat some aspects of magic in the code and intend to be more freefrom. FS3 isn't actually a very good generic dice roller, even if it is sometimes shoe-horned into that role as well.
@three-eyed-crow said in Wheel of Time MU*:
FS3 isn't actually a very good generic dice roller, even if it is sometimes shoe-horned into that role as well.
Ares has a generic dice roller plugin too.
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU*:
But @seraphim73 probably remembers the WoT MUD we were on
Totally random aside, but I got to admit, it's super cute when people reminisce about A Moment in Tyme. @Seraphim73 told me he's reading all his old logs (which I might make him show me so I can go: omg, did we all really RP like that?!). So adorbs. ANYWAY.
Honestly, I'd be curious to see how a WoT game might work just using a traits system and pocket dice. I mean... I might be high off an exhausting week and it's Friday, so CALL ME CRAZY, but I'd check it out.
Racism isn't Tinkerbell. It doesn't need you to believe in it for it to exist.
@derp guess I did invite that response, yes
I couldn't resist. It was just -- right there.
@girlcalledblu said in Wheel of Time MU*:
@arkandel said in Wheel of Time MU*:
But @seraphim73 probably remembers the WoT MUD we were on
Totally random aside, but I got to admit, it's super cute when people reminisce about A Moment in Tyme. @Seraphim73 told me he's reading all his old logs (which I might make him show me so I can go: omg, did we all really RP like that?!). So adorbs. ANYWAY.
Honestly, I'd be curious to see how a WoT game might work just using a traits system and pocket dice. I mean... I might be high off an exhausting week and it's Friday, so CALL ME CRAZY, but I'd check it out.
I can't tell you that I reminisce about Tyme or that period in my life. It's hard to separate the two. I can't imagine there isn't a lot of looking at it through rose colored glasses going on, either. 
But yes, when I read my old logs I cringe at how bad I used to be(*).
(*) I still am, but I used to, too.
@girlcalledblu said in Wheel of Time MU*:
Honestly, I'd be curious to see how a WoT game might work just using a traits system and pocket dice.
For the last five or six years (at least), A Moment in Tyme ran pretty much just like that... except without even a dice system. It just (basically) had those three stats I mentioned before. It worked fine. I think you could honestly use FS3 and versus rolls for Wheel of Time just fine... just don't use the autocombat system. I mean, you'd be losing what I think is the coolest part of FS3, but you could do it, and still have all of the chargen, XP, and roll parts of FS3. Heck, you could even just use FS3 to keep track of the things @Sunny and @krmbm were talking about and not worry about dice at all.
@seraphim73 said in Wheel of Time MU*:
I think you could honestly use FS3 and versus rolls for Wheel of Time just fine... just don't use the autocombat system.
I'll report back on how this works out. That's how we've been running it so far. Because the combat system is, as someone wise once put it, kind of a black box and while we went through how it all works I don't know if I have that log anymore and I'm not sure that I'm up to the considerable task of gutting it to make it work for -- other stuff.
So far we've been doing stuff with versus rolls and just narrative foo and it's worked just fine, though, so if it crashes and burns, I'll report back!
Has the environment of games changed enough that people may be more willing to rely on that sort of narrative ability than coded ability to do things?
What I mean by that is would it be feasible to have channelers have sheets that have their rankings in the various elements and then a list of what the weaves need in order to be used. Then players could use the weave in combat if they meet requirements?
Do the same with sword forms and other types of things?
Ahem. Age. Of. Legends. Or post books. That way cool powers aren't gender locked, there's barely any information so you can literally do what you want. It just depends if you want to lean science fantasy or standard fantasy.
@popes said in Wheel of Time MU*:
Age. Of. Legends.
I think Age of Legends would be cool, but I think it strays back into the what are the expectations of a Wheel of Time game. There might be enough there to keep people interested, but there would also be some things so far removed that it might be better just to make a futuristic fantasy game at that point. I don't know; I'd play it, but I have been longing for a futuristic fantasy setting for a couple months now. 
So the question is—do you focus on the years before the books? Do you venture into the after the Last Battle (wtf does that even look like)?
Sorry, it has been so many years since I read any of the books that I have zero memory at all, so I wasn't sure. From what's being discussed though, I think that's what I'd advise. If you kept it as simple as possible like that, FS3 probably wouldn't need a whole lot of wrangling for it.
