Observation

[hobos]

@Ghost

I legit don't understand if you're trying to make fun of me for acting like a self-righteous poser on a forum about text games, or trying to agree with me that people shouldn't posture about being better than others so much, or what.

I'm guessing the first though? But I didn't swerve? Although maybe you're having trouble parsing my posts. Anyway I guess it's a waste of time to respond, only I don't actually dislike you, so that's why I'm responding here.

You know that, like you, I'm a villain in most MUSHer's eyes -- but that's only partially why I have empathy for people getting unfairly vilified.

When people get accused of something without evidence, it's wrong. It can be painful. Whether it's on some forum for text games or in your cubicle at work or at a family thanksgiving dinner or in a global political committee -- the human feelings of being hurt and excluded are still human feelings of being hurt and excluded. You can pretend feelings are silly and dumb but human beings have feelings and this is just a fact of life.

And wherever we are in life, whether we're in a forum for text games or a cubicle at work or at a dining room table or a massive international conference... we can choose to be considerate of human feelings, and act in a fair and kind way, or I guess just not.

Bleh, I'm out of steam.

[ZombieGenesis]

I can't speak for everyone, but from what I've heard from others and what I've experienced, the lack of posting seems to come down to a few things, depending on the situation.

• A New Game: I know some people who are wary of posting about new games either in development or that have opened because there's always going to be that one person or small group who log on, checks the game out, and posts about all the "red flags" they found on the game. It could be how something is worded in the policies/new files, someone they found out is a player on the game, or someone who is staff on the game. People often have to go on the defensive about their game before it's even open.

When I opened IA 2.0 I had people message me on Discord with a list of IP addresses and asked me if anyone was connecting to the game from them. And, if so, I need to be on high alert.

• It's Exhausting: Posting on these forums can be exhausting. For most people, MUing is a release and an escape from everyday life. The game itself is supposed to be their focus, but often(take a look at how this thread is going, for example), things spiral, and suddenly, we're all investing a lot of time and energy into defending(or attacking) someone or something. People have better things to do, and often, these posts become an emotional sinkhole.

• Lack Of Goodwill: I think people have run out of goodwill and faith in their fellow MUers. There have been too many attacks, too many smear campaigns, too many creepers, and too many breaches of trust for people to get over. I know a lot of people who now just play in their little corner and try not to think much about the rest of the MU world around them.

• Inevitability of Attack: No matter what you post, someone will attack you somehow. Someone, for some reason, will come at you and try to put you on the defensive. Whether it's having run too many games(whatever that means) in the past, having played a character someone thought was problematic, having said something off-color at some point in their past, or any number of other things.

In the end, I think it comes down to some people just feeling the juice is no longer worth the squeeze. They know that if they come here and post something, some combination of the above is going to happen. And I get it, a lot of people have a lot of valid reasons to be wary of certain people and situations, but other people take things too far.

That's been the experience I've had and the experience some others I've spoken with have had, at any rate. I know that I've personally written up posts that I thought might be fun or interesting and have ended up not posting them because I just knew the entire thread had a high chance of taking a sharp nosedive.

And I'm not saying this is specific to any forum, exactly. I don't know really anything about the other forum that popped up when the schism happened here(I don't even know the name off the top of my head). So I hope this doesn't come off as any type of attack against them or against here. It's not. It's just me recounting experiences.

It's a shame, as I've been a part of this hobby going on 30 years now. I love it. I thoroughly enjoy cooperative storytelling with people. I've just become very wary of the forum communities is all.

[Hella]

@hobos said in Observation:

I haven't been able to play much either for the past year. When I try to play anywhere, my attempts always capsize too quickly due to my lack of playtime, and I wouldn't have anything to post about even if I wanted to.

But if I wanted to post right now, and had things to post about, but wasn't posting because I felt sad that I might be outed... that'd feel worse for me, hypothetically, than it would feel for anyone missing out on my potential posts.

And I do know how that feels. I have experienced refraining from posting not only because I'm worried about outing myself, but outing someone else as well.

Still, posting about things that interest you and may peripherally lead to being tracked-down is not the same as directly outing yourself as a persona non grata. I'm confident that anyone could track me down if they wanted to and it wouldn't be difficult. My suggestion (not demand) was less for my own entertainment value than it was for community/individual health.

It's okay, I got what you meant. You're all good. Knowing you more personally, I think I probably have the benefit of a better understanding. You are a legit good person.

[hobos]

@Hella

Well it's not for absolutely nothing that I've been vilified in the past. But thanks, I appreciate your generosity of spirit, Hella. Glad you understood that I was trying to be positive rather than demanding that you or anyone throw themselves to proverbial wolves. #heartwarmed

And whenever I get around to being able to play again, I will be trying to take my own advice, at least.

Editing to say, also, I'm sorry for attacking people here who are probably just doing their best. There is a lot of history of vitriol on these types of forums, and it's not something that changes overnight. But at least people are making efforts and it's definitely not as bad as it could be.

[Devrex]

@ZombieGenesis This whole post pretty much sums up my experience and why I am no longer playing anywhere, running anything, posting much, or running stories anywhere unless it's for a handful of friends via tabletop. It's not worth it, I'm so super tired, and every time I consider summoning up enough energy to do anything of the sort, I remember what the costs are going to be, nope, right out, and go do literally anything else. I grieve sometimes, because this was a big part of my life for almost 30 years too.

[reimesu]

I've only got about 25 years under my belt, but the last few mushes I've been on were so outside of what I'm interested in playing that I'm giving up for a while. Tabletop is doing me just fine and I'm ok with it: it leaves time for me to do everything else I want to do. And since I know everyone, there's a lot fewer personality clashes.

[Ghost]

@reimesu TTRPG has been good to me. More consistent, less drama, and my creativity isn't restricted by the social side-game. I'm fixing to run some v5 here soon.

[reimesu]

@Ghost It's been Old Gods of Appalachia for me. (Cypher System.) Been rolling around and getting comfortable in it. My group tried City of Mists, but for a system that's supposed to be cinematic, it is unnecessarily complicated.

[ZombieGenesis]

@reimesu My group had a blast with City of Mist. We used it to emulate a more straight-up superhero game. We did modify things a bit, used 3 themes instead of 4, and they were customized by the player instead of having strict themes. So a player could have "Alien Physiology" as a theme with related tags within it.

We're starting up some Savage Worlds stuff now. I'm running Rifts and another player is going to start up a Savage Worlds Pathfinder campaign. We're pretty psyched.

[Ghost]

@ZombieGenesis I actually looked up startplayinggames and have had pretty good success finding inexpensive GMs of quality games so far, and might throw my hat into running games for a little side cash.

My docket right now consists of V5 Vampire, Aliens, Walking Dead, Secret World (when I get it), and the new marvel rpg. I was also in on the kickstarter for Alchemy and that looks like it'll be a super sweet vtt for running streamed games.

[ZombieGenesis]

@Ghost Aliens is for sure on the list of games I want to play or run. I was pleasantly shocked by the Marvel game. I hated the beta, but they fixed almost all the issues I had with it. I'm going to pre-order the Kang adventure and run it with my group when it comes out.

[Ghost]

@ZombieGenesis Right on. I'm always in the market for a good Supers system, because supers games are either way too "free form rpg" (BESM) for my tastes or are eye-meltingly crunchy (Champions). I haven't gone through the book post-beta, but I'm hoping they put in a solution for the challenge level system I found to be somewhat confusing.

[Hella]

@ZombieGenesis said in Observation:

@reimesu My group had a blast with City of Mist. We used it to emulate a more straight-up superhero game. We did modify things a bit, used 3 themes instead of 4, and they were customized by the player instead of having strict themes. So a player could have "Alien Physiology" as a theme with related tags within it.

We're starting up some Savage Worlds stuff now. I'm running Rifts and another player is going to start up a Savage Worlds Pathfinder campaign. We're pretty psyched.

This is the campaign I'm in right now with my group and it's engaging AF. I've been told we're doing Runelords? But I'm not allowed to look it up because Spoilers!

[Devrex]

@Ghost said in Observation:

@ZombieGenesis I actually looked up startplayinggames and have had pretty good success finding inexpensive GMs of quality games so far, and might throw my hat into running games for a little side cash.

My docket right now consists of V5 Vampire, Aliens, Walking Dead, Secret World (when I get it), and the new marvel rpg. I was also in on the kickstarter for Alchemy and that looks like it'll be a super sweet vtt for running streamed games.

What I learned about StartPlaying is it's hard to get players if you're not doing D&D or Pathfinder, and if you're not running pre-published adventures. Very weird to me as to me running a pre-published takes less creativity and skill than writing your own, but that's what people are paying for.

[Ghost]

@Devrex Yeah, there is a downside to SPG. About 90% of the games are D&D and there's no "exclude this game system from search" option, so there's some "go fish" involved.

The other issue with SPG is some of these people are asking $25-$35 per session on weekly games, and most of the people doing this are the ones trying to turn being a GM into a full time job. So one game may net some GM 500/month. Shit, I saw one this week where a guy was asking $75/session per player. There's also something different with the GMs who are trying to supplement an entire income from SPG; the ones I've been in contact with tend to be really militant about filling those player slots and booting people for being absent because it's more about the income and less about the game.

Regardless, I don't think I'd ever charge more than $15/session, but it is a good platform for finding GMs who are actually looking to produce a quality game experience, because if they're shit GMs their players will drop. There's something I like about the arrangement where I'm a paying customer and if they're flaky and keep canceling games I'm not risking a friendship by quitting.

[Devrex]

@Ghost Yeah I think it looked pretty good from the player side, and that's pretty good feedback too...I was afraid if I charged less than $20 a seat it would look like something was wrong with my games. You can filter by game system to search for games, or time, or anything else, last I saw. And I guess there might be some appeal to: "I know that Curse of Strahd was really fun cause my friend played it and had fun and now I want to play it too," and the certainty of knowing someone competent wrote the adventure. I wouldn't want to be militant about bumping seats, that sounds no fun at all. I didn't try it as a player cause I don't have that kind of money to burn right now, but I did think I could make a little extra dough. Unfortunately the systems I'm interested in running are not D&D and Pathfinder and so I struggled to find players.

[Ghost]

@Devrex yeah you can filter by game system and by time, so I have to set my desired times and do the systems I want one by one to make sure I'm not getting a hundred dnd games. No offense to people who love dnd but I'm now in my early 40s and I don't know how many more "_________ cleric" or "_______ rogue" I have left in me.

I think 15-20 is fine. I rationalize this by saying "I would be willing to buy dinner for my GM" so I set the bar at how much I'd be willing to pay for dinner.