Previously Mutants & Masterminds MUX, now a Question! DUN DUN DUN!

[ThatGuyThere]

I don't fly my nerd flag but I also don't hide it. I usually mention comics right away since I have a bunch and they take up a lot of space so not really something I can hide. About date 3 I mention being a wrestling fan since that is also a niche pursuit though a more accepted one then rpgs. At date five I mention the RPGs my reasoning for this is that while I don't want to hide things but I want the change to show I am not defined by somewhat odd hobbies and i have found if you spring all three at once it tends to set out a lot of alarms. Possibly not among the generation younger then me but since my dating range is 30 to 50 or so they still have a lot of the older mindset.

[Hella]

I hide it, the MUSHing. Completely. Waaaay in the closet. Hot chicks can't like things that nerdy unless they're into dating nerds. I tried it once and it was a complete failure.

[Cirno]

@Ghost said:

@Cirno WORD. AOL RP CHATS. Remember names like Vv_HellVAMP_vV ?

Good times.

And the wackiness we would get up to!

I fondly remember the shenanigans. Castles miles long. Sailing ships that were thousands of feet in length (how did they not warp and splinter apart into matchsticks, like The Baron of Renfrew did?).

Characters so overpowered and twinkish in nature that any normal MU* er would have screamed and fainted upon merely viewing a description of their abilities.

Of course, this is to be expected when you let a bunch of prepubescent kids on the Internet. As Mike Krahulik or someone else said, I was a feral child back then.

Ah, yes, those were the days.

[Cirno]

@Ghost said:

Dude, I empathize. Being a white guy, I can tell anyone that I play D&D and unless they were some kind of hellfire and brimstone Evangelical, they wouldn't think anything of it. I had a few black friends back in the day who hid their RPG habit, too, and I get it. I love being able to fly my nerd flag high, so whenever I come into contact with someone who loves it but has to hide it, I try to be supportive.

Thanks for sharing.

I'd just like to make an observation that is not directed at anyone in this thread, it's just a thing I've noticed over the years.

There's a group of black people (this appears to be a phenomenon localized to African-Americans, because you have the black people in Africa who listen to heavy metal, adopt Goth culture, watch anime, cosplay, and go to Hardcore Techno Raves without feeling less black or whatever effect doing things that are Not Traditionally Black are supposed to have on your person) who feel that they are contractually obligated to behave in ways associated with black culture (by whom?), for whatever mysterious reason(s), that I have never fully understood.

On one end of the scale, you have the black people who engage in roleplay and hide it shamefully. Maybe they also do things like listen to rap music, wear Nikes, and watch football because other black people do these things.

On the other end, you have the black people who change their name legally to Imhotep Tutankhamun Amen-Ra and wear Dashikis 24/7. It's a sliding scale, if you will. Google The Hotep Phenomenon if you need more information about these people. They are usually called Hoteps.

And that brings me to my next point: is MU* ing such a terrible thing that it must be kept under wraps? Is it as bad as being a pedophile? Because that is the inference being made here. I feel like people are overreacting a little bit here.

If, in actuality, we must hide MU* ing because normal people will think we're weird, that's a bullshit reason, because conforming and trying to be normal is a nonsense objective. We're not all a hivemind. We're allowed to be different and unique, surprisingly enough.

However, I admit that I enjoy being unconventional and displaying my fringe element. I'm one of the Fringe Society people. I get along well with other weird people and shun normal people, to the point where I am openly contemptuous of normal people.

I realize that other people may desperately want to fit in, and, therefore, talking about MU* ing goes against this purpose.

[Coin]

@Ghost said:

@Cirno WORD. AOL RP CHATS. Remember names like Vv_HellVAMP_vV ?

Same thing for me and @lordbelh on MSN Chats.

[TNP]

@Cirno said:

I got into RP because I grew up using a computer and was part of the AOL Chatroom Roleplay crowd of the 1990's.

Did you ever play Gemstone III?

[Warma Sheen]

@Cirno said:

If, in actuality, we must hide MU* ing because normal people will think we're weird, that's a bullshit reason, because conforming and trying to be normal is a nonsense objective. We're not all a hivemind. We're allowed to be different and unique, surprisingly enough.

If you believe we're allowed to be different and unique, then it seems a little ironic to condemn someone else's reasoning because it doesn't conform to yours, doesn't it

@Cirno said:

And that brings me to my next point: is MU* ing such a terrible thing that it must be kept under wraps? Is it as bad as being a pedophile? Because that is the inference being made here.

Not even a little bit. You're taking an open and honest conversation and using hyperbole to pander to your own point of view.

So forgetting about race for a second... Our hobby isn't socially flattering. I don't think I have to argue that point. Hiding it because normal people will think I'm weird isn't a 'bullshit reason' as you say. Its a calculated move to allow me to have a greater number of quality social interactions, which I prefer immensely to being up front about what I do in my spare time. There's near zero benefit to telling someone I RP. While there's a great deal of benefit to NOT telling someone I RP. A basic cost/benefit analysis of that scenario tells us that doing anything other than keeping my hobby to myself is a "nonsense objective".

Please keep in mind is that everyone is different. You seem to push that point when arguing your own point of view, but forget it completely in any other context. The quality of my social interactions might be far outside of your experience. When I go out downtown at night and hit the bars and clubs with friends and I talk to people, RP isn't being brought up. The friends I'm with aren't bringing it up. And at the end of my night, I'm very happy with that decision. Universally. I've never had a night where I said to myself 'man, I really wish I would have told that extremely attractive woman that I like to play D&D'. Never. Not a single time in over a decade.

You are definitely welcome to your opinions on the subject matter, but I would guess that your lifestyle isn't similar to mine. In your situations and social encounters, you might not lose anything at all by telling people all your freaky proclivities. Your social ceiling might be such that it wouldn't really matter what you say to the people that would actually engage with you socially, being in "Fringe Society" and whatnot. So you do as you want. I won't judge you either way. But please don't be so myopic to think that fitting in socially is a ridiculous notion for everyone. And don't be so insulting to say that wanting to present ones self as we prefer to be seen is a bullshit reason for doing anything.

It was a good conversation up to this point. It was interesting to read other people's stories and experiences. But I think we can all do without the value judgements.

[Arkandel]

@Warma-Sheen said:

Universally. I've never had a night where I said to myself 'man, I really wish I would have told that extremely attractive woman that I like to play D&D'. Never. Not a single time in over a decade.

And that's why she can't find a D&D group! You're a monster.

[Derp]

@Warma-Sheen said:

I've never had a night where I said to myself 'man, I really wish I would have told that extremely attractive woman that I like to play D&D'. Never. Not a single time in over a decade.

But like... it works for Vin Diesel. Why not for everyone else?

[Thenomain]

Playing computer games used to be similar. Now it's at the very least acceptable, if not taken as a bit of a waste of time by busy people. Besides, are you going to have a continued relationship with someone you hide your hobbies from? If you're just in it for "dat ass", it's not going to come up anyway.

[Arkandel]

@Thenomain said:

If you're just in it for "dat ass", it's not going to come up anyway.

In (some?) seriousness, I think what he's saying is it's not a very good pickup line. He's probably right, depending on the girl.

If anything, society norms mandate people have hobbies but they aren't very serious about them. "I watch Game of Thrones" is perfectly acceptable, but talking about Jon Snow's parentage in depth is frowned upon. It's not too different in that way from being a sports fan; you can say you like basketball and it's fine, but going over Westbrook and Durant's record PER is a no-no.

Source: I haven't dated in ten years.

[Thenomain]

@Arkandel

Sports, Movies, Television, Music, and other forms of mainstream entertainment. Sometimes Fashion. There are plenty of topics here in the States where trivia is considered a bonus. I live in a city where the words "oh, is there a game today?" is worth social shunning and "I'm just not that into sports" is losing the chance at a second date.

"I watch game of Thrones" is no different than "I play games with the fellas", which is how I couch my game-playing tendencies. It helps that the games I play are board games.

[ThatGuyThere]

In college when i cared about relationships enough to lie, I would also refer to the table top sessions as poker night with the guys. Gaming was a deal breaker but weekly gambling was accepted.

[Cirno]

@Warma-Sheen said:

The quality of my social interactions might be far outside of your experience. When I go out downtown at night and hit the bars and clubs with friends and I talk to people, RP isn't being brought up. The friends I'm with aren't bringing it up. And at the end of my night, I'm very happy with that decision. Universally. I've never had a night where I said to myself 'man, I really wish I would have told that extremely attractive woman that I like to play D&D'. Never. Not a single time in over a decade.s.

I dunno, man. This sounds like PUA (Pick-Up Artist) talk - from the "quality of social interactions" line (because, as all PUAs know, you have to Display High Value when talking to an attractive woman (or a HB10, as they call them), and show 'Alpha' qualities, such as not engaging in nerd shit like roleplaying), to the heavy emphasis on clubs and bars.

It is possible to meet women in venues that are not, exclusively, clubs and bars. And if your modus operandi is to sarge (another standard Pick-Up Artist method) clubs and bars with your wingmen in search of extremely attractive women, or HBs, to Display High Value and Alpha Male your way into F-closing them, then that's entirely your prerogative. I'm just saying that I'm not into the whole sarging bars and clubs like an Alpha Male method. If it works for you, then bravo. My method of interacting with people is fundamentally different from yours, that's all. The last time I went to a bar was last year.

Guess I'm not an Alpha Male.

I really gotta ask, though; do you also lift weights and wear TAPOUT branded shirts, and talk about that really sweet Mixed Martial Arts class you take, really loudly, within earshot of the club HB's?

Special thanks to David Futrelle of We Hunted The Mammoth and /r/Bluepill for keeping me abreast (heh) of the latest PUA terminology.

[Warma Sheen]

@Cirno said:

I dunno, man.

No, you really don't know.

You rambled on and on about nothing relevant because of one phrase that kind of sounds like something you've heard of before from something you read one time on the interwebs? From the over exaggerations, the jumping to baseless conclusions, your eagerness to look down on people who aren't like you, contradicting yourself, a string of prejudices and biases, and a compulsive need to put other people down, it is clear why you have trouble in "normal society", which supports my point. Someone like that would immediately turn off anyone of quality, male or female, potential partner or potential friend. So being open about the fact that you RP is just beating a dead horse.

@Thenomain said:

Besides, are you going to have a continued relationship with someone you hide your hobbies from? If you're just in it for "dat ass", it's not going to come up anyway.

If I'm in a continued relationship, its different. I tend to know when she's into me enough that knowing about my RP isn't going to hurt the relationship. At that point, if a girl is into she's into you and RP is just a minor quirk - so long as you don't let it get into the way of your time with her. If you're blowing off spending time with her to RP, then it will become a much bigger issue.

But I rarely do that, which is fine with me. I've never dated a girl I liked spending time with less than RPing, generally. Almost all of my RP now is online and I can get in plenty from work. So it works out great for everyone involved. In the rare occasions old friends get a tabletop game together, just saying I'm gonna be hanging out with friends generally does the trick. As far as I can remember, I've never really had to say exactly what I'll be doing. Usually after I'll get questions about what I did, but 'gaming' usually does the trick since when I am hanging out with the friends I have now, video games is actually what we normally do. Every now and then a tabletop night with other friends will get thrown in and gets lost in the shuffle...

[silentsophia]

It's probably not going to go over well if she ever finds out. I know I'd feel a bit weirded out someone totally needed to hide their hobbies.

I'd prefer to meet someone who was at the least okay with my interests, if not willing to share or be into them, too.

[Thenomain]

@Warma-Sheen said:

If I'm in a continued relationship, its different.

That's what I said. Why are we talking about this, again? Warma's Romance Advice for Nerds? You and Cirno should start a podcast.

[Warma Sheen]

@Thenomain I'm sure Cirno's a nice guy, but I'll pass on that and go straight to publishing the book and selling the movie rights.

[Tyche]

@ThatGuyThere said:

In college when i cared about relationships enough to lie, I would also refer to the table top sessions as poker night with the guys. Gaming was a deal breaker but weekly gambling was accepted.

I refer to the weekly games as poker night now, for opposite reasons. The people I work with currently do play role-playing games and I have no desire to ever play with them.

[Lithium]

@Cirno said:

@Lithium said:

I have enough time to run something again the hobby might no longer really exist.

• It's going to take you 40 years to have time for this again?

or

• The hobby still 'really exists'?

Pick one.

I don't have to pick one. In 40 years I will be dead because unlike you, I am not some young kid who thinks he knows everything. At the rate the hobby is losing people and not gaining many, raw attrition says that it won't be /that/ much longer in the grand scope of things that there won't be truly sustainable numbers for anything other than pay to play muds and sex MU*'s. Cuz Sex always sells.

EDIT: As to why we are losing and not gaining? Kids these days grew up with exceptional graphics video games. Most do not have the inclination to really learn to use their imagination when someone else can do it for them and put it on the television through the power of a console or even the PC. There are huge worlds for them to learn and love and they don't need to learn to stretch themselves now because giving someone a 'living' fantasy world through games has become such a huge business and technology has progressed to the point that most don't need to use their imagination to picture the game world, or even know how to tell good literature from bad (Yes, I am looking at you Twilight fans).

So text on a screen? It is to slow, they have to read, they have to wait for any 'gratification'. MUD's are slightly better off because they are at least faster paced, create character, go kill mobs, loot rewards, rinse and repeat.

As someone who's been MU*'ing nearly as long as @Cirno has been alive (If they are really 25 years old) I can honestly say the heyday is WELL passed. When even a HORRIBLE (imho) game like Dark Metal had hundreds of people, and if your game ever had less than 20 on it was /dying/ or already dead, that we've lost a LOT of fellow hobbyists.

Now the rare (non-sex) game breaks 50 people at peak time, and it's not for lack of variety. So yeah, the community is dwindling.