Feelings of not being wanted...

[surreality]

@VulgarKitten said:

Or start making lists of people they don't want to play with and post it up.

I'm on the same page with you re: 'there is a very short list of people I will not go near if I know it's them'. It's about six people long after 20 years, so it could be worse.

I wouldn't list them on +finger. Here's why:

1. Nothing provokes certain personality types to engage in creepy bullshit than being called out for engaging in creepy bullshit. One of the people on this list, while he didn't do this to me, has been known to deliberately deceive players that have told him, "Do not interact with me OOC, I want nothing to do with you ever again," in order to fuck with them without them realizing who he is.

2. Most people are nothing like the example above, and the reason we don't get along with them isn't some deep-seated malicious intent, but because we simply don't get along. They might be 100% fine interacting with everyone but us, and it's just not kosher to label someone a 'problem' like this -- because people will see it no other way -- and potentially avoid that person. Which is not fair. People used to do this on Shang; it's now one of their few rules that it's not allowed. I agree with them on this one.

3. It prolongs whatever drama inspired them to be added to that list long after it's best left dead and buried, and can contribute to further hostilities on that front. If you added them because you don't want whatever drama interacting with them entailed? This is not the way to get there.

[Apos]

@surreality I agree with all the points Surreality mentioned but also I'd point out that if I knew nothing of either party and saw a 'I will not play with X' list, it'd trip all kinds of red flags for me. Justified or not, I'd think in the back of my head, 'Man there must be drama around this person' and probably avoid the person that created the list. I think the same thing about people that have really combative notes in their +finger. You know, the ones that are like, 'DON'T COME TO ME IF YOU WANT X'. It's a vibe that makes me instinctively steer clear.

[surreality]

@Apos Yup, and the 'there's drama there' affects both the poster and the named person exactly like you describe.

Very rare is the conflict on a game that is 100% one-sided, and the kind of player that can't stop themselves from provoking others or behaving in an inappropriate manner is going to stand out on their own, and usually pretty fast. Basically, in the cases of the worst offenders, by the time you read in someone's +finger that whoever you +fingered has a problem with that person, odds are good whoever is doing the reading has figured out that JoeBobFuckFace is a jerk already.

[Apos]

@Luna said:

I've often felt unwanted. The worst thing though is 'I love RPing with you, but so and so hates you and will get super dramatic about it so I can't' Ph cool. Bad behavior rewarded. Awesome.

Missed this earlier, but as an aside, please don't trust guys that say this. Like ever. I've known several men who find it very convenient to blame other RP partners for their lack of availability when they aren't feeling it or in the mood for something else, since they figure if they just say that they alienate an RP partner they enjoy at least some of the time. Frankly, if someone is shady enough to badmouth an RP partner they keep around as an excuse to not RP with you, I would not trust them to be honest.

I know this might not help those feelings of not being wanted like the thread topic, but I have been in the position of telling a bro why this was horseshit thing to do after having to sort out drama of women that hated one another pointlessly over this very crap. "GOSH I'D LOVE TO RP WITH YOU RATHER THAN CONTINUE TS'ING THE BRAINS OUT OF THIS WOMAN BUT SHE'S JUST SO DEMANDING SO I'LL CATCH YOU LATER." 100% bullshit.

[mietze]

Yeah, I think some kind of +finger based list of "People disqualified from RP with me" probably at least to me kind of says more about the person publicizing it. I have seen people do something close to that and TBH it always ends up I think after spending time with that person "wow, I can sure tell why you have problems with people!"

It's such a passive and kind of gross thing to foist your drama on everyone like that. Just avoid that person, if you will melt if you have to be in the same scene then politely excuse yourself so that you don't burden the ST or the other people.

And I 1000 percent agree that if someone is using the "I'd be all over you but poor me my other lady friend won't let me" excuse? Maaaybe the lady friend is a total bitch, but it's 99.9 percent the case that the poor guy caught "in the middle" is an even bigger asshole.

[Sovereign]

Never trust someone who just up and shit-talks someone else behind their back to you. They're shit-talking about you behind yours, too.

[Apos]

@mietze said:

And I 1000 percent agree that if someone is using the "I'd be all over you but poor me my other lady friend won't let me" excuse? Maaaybe the lady friend is a total bitch, but it's 99.9 percent the case that the poor guy caught "in the middle" is an even bigger asshole.

Yeah. "I'm really sorry you feel that way, but X is a friend whom I enjoy RPing with, and I'm going to RP with her even if you personally do not care for her." This is not that fucking hard to say. I have done this and it really is NOT hard. Shit, the funniest conversation I had in a MU was with an incredibly possessive and passive-aggressive player who had a reputation for stalkerish behavior, I had no idea, and when she sent me a page like, 'So whatcha doin?:):):):):)' after +where stalking me. I told her my self-destructive and flawed (by design) character was having a torrid affair because I thought it would make a good story. I thought she'd be amused by it. Hoo boy. Not so much.

[surreality]

@mietze said:

And I 1000 percent agree that if someone is using the "I'd be all over you but poor me my other lady friend won't let me" excuse? Maaaybe the lady friend is a total bitch, but it's 99.9 percent the case that the poor guy caught "in the middle" is an even bigger asshole.

Yup. I have seen exactly three exceptions to this in 20 years. (In that the people caught in the middle were not worse assholes, that is.) In all three cases, there was a lot of passive-aggressive 'go ahead and do the thing' 'YOU SHOULD HAVE MADE THE DECISION TO FORSAKE ANYTHING THAT DID NOT REVOLVE AROUND ME ON YOUR OWN!' crazy motherfucker head game bullshit. In all three cases it also involved RL relationship-foo resulting in the head game control freak having more influence than they would over the average stranger.

That saying about exceptions proving the rule comes to mind... fast.

[faraday]

@Ganymede said:

I realize I sound very hypocritical since I generally play on WoD games which usually end up just being a monitored setting with no particular direction or theme.

I don't think it's hypocritical, but as you point out - there are lots of games that aren't following any particular direction. When I built my Wild West game, for instance, I had a central plotline involving a range war but I didn't care whether players participated in it or not. If you wanted to do your own thing on your farm with your buddies, that was fine. When I ran BSP, there was a central plotline about the Cylon war, but if you really wanted to play a cook, I didn't mind.

There's no right or wrong way to run a game, so it all comes down to your goals and expectations. (And making those clear to the other players.)

[Ganymede]

@Sovereign said:

It's like crossing the Pacific in a raft. Even if you can, that doesn't make it good at it.

I figure that if the Kon-Tiki could do it in the late 40's, rafts are just fine.

[Luna]

@Apos I can't agree with you more. I bailed on the number one person I kept running into that made that excuse. I got tired of the 'you're awesome, but I have to keep these other bitches happy because I don't want to cause trouble'. No, you don't. You say they're not important, that you don't want to cause trouble...what you're really saying is that I want my cake, with ice cream, and to eat it all too because I know you'll be there to take advantage of.

You're so cool and understanding, not like those other bitches. Uh. Yeah. Why do you deal with them then? Ladies, mush dudes are often calling you bitches. Some of you legit are though. I have my moments.

A lot of this really boils down to relationship drama. Lame.

[surreality]

Tempted to spin off a 'Jealousy on M*s' thread, but it's a lots of work day. But there should be one, because that is one hell of a broad subject.

[Misadventure]

Do eeeet!

[Luna]

I did it. Saves someone else the notification hell. Lol