Peeve: Things that happen which are totally my fault, so who do I get mad at?
Example: I get out of the shower, I'm cold as hell, and I realize there's no towel because I didn't grab a fresh one after putting the last one in the laundry basket.
Or the classic, bang my knee against a table corner. Argh.
@Coin said:
@Chime said:
@Catsmeow said:
If you don't log, you get screwed.
Player logs are ultimately meaningless and easily forged. There are various ways to do server-side logging to line checksums or the like, but people either think it's some spy game or too complicated.
But yes-- it's essential to keep your own logs independent of what the server has.
I've never understood the over-reliance on logs-as-proof, myself. It's foolhardy and stupid to think that someone being accused of something bad (if guilty) wouldn't be willing and able to forge or edit some log to further their own goals or whatever.
I always thought of the need to log everything as a supreme sign the game is taking a turn into a very, very bad direction. If you feel compelled to constantly keep logs of your conversations then you should consider leaving and not looking back.
@Ganymede said:
You always need the right staff. How do you plan on recruiting them? With good systems. I would posit that if this system were implemented, you'd have good staffers lining up at your door. Why? Because the system protects good staffers by showing the players that, indeed, nothing nefarious is going on behind closed doors.
Good people create good systems, not the other way around. Quality Head Staff would (pretty much by definition) both hire and attract decent people to man positions.
But try to implement an otherwise perfectly reasonable system to staff where a bad culture has been allowed to spread and you'll get relatively little out of it.
@Thenomain said:
Maybe if you have the right staff, and the right players. But if you have the right staff, then you don't need a system like this. They will make do with what they're handed. If you have the right players, you don't need a system at all.
You can't ever have the right players unless you specifically plan to have a tiny game and are pretty strict about every character approved and ever position someone is promoted to until it's clear who fits in. It'd probably not be much fun for anyone involved.
You can however control who staffs for your game.
Now, while the burden of proof is on the accusing part I agree it's next to impossible to deal with. Even things which are conceivably demonstrable - such as abuse of OOC information turned IC - are usually really subjective and take a tremendous amount of shifting through logs and reading between the lines for someone to establish.
If however your staff has a good reputation for being fair and they don't mind dealing directly with crap they can still cut through the white noise and make a ruling. It's not the system though in that case, it's the people involved. It's damn hard to use this approach though.
For starters you might not have access to those kinds of staff members.
Most people think they command such respect whether that's true or not. Yet self-awareness if not traditionally most MU* players' strong suit.
Many staff have the illusion this respect is granted along with the staff-bit flag, and that the sliver of authority invested in them makes their rulings credible. The very idea is laughable.
The vast majority of staff members don't want to have to deal with even relatively small amounts of drama. What they do is hide it under the carpet and don't do anything about it hoping it'll just go away on its own causing +jobs sit there for weeks and months. Sometimes it works. Sometimes one party will just say 'fuck it' and leave your game, even if they were in the right. And sometimes it all turns into TR's Mage sphere - a cesspool of spite and universal mistrust left unchecked for so long it just takes over.
For me there's only one way to deal with this: Pick your staff first. No, hand-pick your staff first. Everyone has to be really good. Adjust your game's size in any way you see fit so that things can be handled with the staff you have to avoid having to compromise who you are hiring. Then run that game, hoping you'll get quality people to replace anyone lost to natural attrition, burnout or real life.
Inactive Characters:
A Moment in Tyme: Narsil Grimm (Warder), Dacain Two-Step (Aiel spear), Kane (Implementor).
Haunted Memories: Theodore Paleologos (Vampire - Gangrel Stormcrow), Smoke (Mage - Thyrsus Guardian of the Veil).
St. Petersburg: Gabriel (Werewolf - Blood Talon Rahu).
The Reach: Waterdeep (Geist TL), Adrian/Wraith (Mage - Mastigos Libertine), Milton Roth (Vampire - Lancea Sanctum Glutton), Brick (Geist), .
Safe Haven Harbor: Adrian (Mage)
Eldritch: Daniel Derleth (Werewolf)
Kushiel's Debut: Arcturus Rousse, Comte of Nimes
HeroMUX: Stephen Strange
Fallen World: Aegis / Odd-Job Bob (Mage)
Dawn of Defiance: Ban - Banjan Teroven - is a Jedi on the run
Arx: Sir Rainier Ashford of the King's Own, Prince Castiel Thrax
Fallen World Nathan Evans (Werewolf)
X-Men: Mutant Genesis X-Man (The Brotherhood)
The 8th Sea Simon Glover (The Impudent)
Shadows Over Reno: Richter, Gangrel Sworn of the Axe
The Descent: Timothy Watson, a Carthian street preacher
**San Francisco, POTW: ** Morris Jackson, a Sin-Eatiner and professional blogger
Spirit Lake: Damon Ferguson, a big city corporate lawyer.
Echoes in the Mists: Oscar Grover, a werewolf named after two Muppets.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Active Characters
Ithil: High Priest Tykalos Alcaldia.
And for the love of ... Defaulting a decision through inaction is not a valid approach.
When an issue is first brought up there should be a very specific time frame under which staff has to respond and make a decision; it's up to players to provide input within that timeframe but either way there should be a resolution.
Why is conflict defined so strictly as being cop vs criminals?
Again, my Sons of Anarchy binge run is probably doing the talking here, but it seems much more fun to mix it up, and there are so many approaches to plot. A cartel/the mob is moving in and the criminals must fight back without exposing themselves to the cops and get arrested (or wear cement shoes and go swimming in the ocean). The cops would love to mess with the PCs but they got orders and bigger fish to fry in the NPCs. Etc.
As a sidethought - this isn't the TR thread, it's the 'how can we do Crime better' one. So let's try to bring up solutions and fun approaches rather than showcase how one implementation has failed. 
I think the problem is a bit more fundamental than Crime not working; my take on it is that resources (not necessarily the WoD merit by the same name) are not working and it's affecting a lot of other areas of a MU*.
Before Crime can function thematically it has have a place in the overall theme and it must lead to some engaging roleplay. For most games that's an afterthought; it's put together somewhat hastily (usually in the form of grid squares and gang names buried in some wiki page), it's represented by a couple of attributes ('black market', 'contacts', etc) and then players are left to do their thing. What, precisely, is that thing?
Stealing stuff (or any traditional blackmail, extortion, etc alternatives) means nothing because there's no shortage of resources, nothing to be truly gained by doing so.
Pushing another gang out is similarly just as useless; even if you succeed how is your roleplay changed in any measurable way? Territory as a resource is sorely underdeveloped in most MU*.
There is usually not much exclusive to criminals; any character can have larceny, contacts, etc without being 'a criminal' per se. Compare that to playing someone in law enforcement - there is no merit that lets you be a part-time cop.
It's a (possible WoD-only) cultural thing but there are simply more PrPs thrown for catching bad guys ("robbery in progress, all units respond!") than for being one. And it's a well documented phenomenon that people go where the plot already is.
None of these things mean you can't have a very successful Crime genre in a game, it only means it has to be planned for. Staff has to facilitate advancement in a way similar to what law enforcement has (anything from street hassler to mob boss), there must be unique elements non-career criminals can't have access to (perhaps black market gear, information that can mirror without being the same as being able to look people up people on the FBI database, etc), and actual reasons why you would want to be king of the hill other than simply being that.
On top of it you need measurable boons which boost your influence the more successful you are, and part of this means making it so everyone in the game isn't independently wealthy. After all even in real life poverty is a leading factor for criminal activity, so if you make your game so everyone has stacks of cash to wipe their ass with what's the point of being a criminal? Introducing shortages - and forcing people to make choices - helps many aspects of gameplay, and Crime is just one of them.
Oh, I didn't care about names (which I probably wouldn't recognize any more anyway), just if it was staff or regular players, which you did answer.
My concern is that people who play on TR feel "WORA" in general has some beef with "them" rather than the way the game is being ran. Speaking for myself (and quite possibly for others, too) any antipathy shown in TR-related posts is because we love the game yet loathe seeing how it has turned out.
But if what's scraped from the bottom of a barrel to staff there had an issue with uncensored criticism, well, I can live with that.
@Chime said:
@Whirlwind said:
The biggest problem with WORA going down (PS: it might not be fully lost; we're still sending field agents to check, since the server host whoosit wasn't/isn't actually with anyone we know) is that it's so tough to let folks know about updates.
True-that. I started spreading the word, but made the mistake of going to the Reach first. They shat porcupines. Backwards. And that kinda put me off from mentioning it further, so someone should probably talk about it on the G+ mushing circles if they haven't already.
Just for the lols, could you clarify who 'they' were or what 'shitting porcupines' entailed in this case please?
@Glitch said:
@ixokai There have been several requests for this, or at least mentions that the brightness is too strong. The next version of this forum software is supposed to come with a new theme that is gentler on eyes sensitive to the whites.
Out of curiosity, how come you picked this forum platform instead of one of the other usual suspects (phpBB, SMF, etc) ?
Some of my favorite novels/series:
The Kingkiller Chronicle by Patrick Rothfuss
The Stormlight Archive by Brandon Sanderson
The Broken Empire + The Red Queen’s War by Mark Lawrence
The Barrow by Mark Smylie
The Black Prism by Brent Weeks
Raven's Shadow by Anthony Ryan
The Faithful and the Fallen by John Gwynne
If anyone is on GoodReads feel free to toss me a friend request. I'm Arkandel there too.
I think this is one of those cases where the fewer rules that exist the easier it is for the community to enforce it via culture rather than active administration.
Admins can take care of the Big Ones; spam, for example. RL threats or exposing RL information is another biggie. Stuff like that.
Otherwise let the chips fall where they may. If someone lacks the thick skin to take an occasional flame or two (and we all have) they should not be here.
All I care about WORA-wise is to have more or less the same crowd of regulars around in a somewhat uncensored environment. I.e. as long as posts are only moderated based on their forum and general set of rules rather than their content or who is getting flamed today.
As long as that exists... well, having the ability to go back and look at several years' worth of drama could be entertaining but personally I don't care too much about it.
If this place gets the gang back together, given the people in charge's track record, I'm sure it'll be good enough.
These forums' interface will take a while to get used to. But hey, whatever, if we get more or less the same crowd here it'll be a pit of discontent and drama in no time so all's good.