Posts made by Derp

@Macha

Thank you for the update!

ETA: I stifled the urge to create an Undead Celebrities thread.

@Ganymede @RightMeow @Warma-Sheen

Ah. Then no, I didn't miss that. I get that people think that part is easy.

But what it doesn't take into account is that keeping up that level of anonymity even with good behavior is exhausting. It's easy to make slips about anything that happened in the past. Relationships you've built with other people. Good times that you had.

Friendships can be tarnished based on the old identity, and so going into those circles becomes awkward because on the one hand, you like these people, but on the other -- how do you just come out and tell them that you're this other person that has all of this negative baggage associated with them?

We've seen, on this forum, blowups about people 'flying under the radar' even when they haven't done anything recent, just based on prior history and being outed.

So no, I didn't miss that going into a game under a different identity is "easy." I was countering with "it is harder than you think, exhausting, and potentially unfair if based on slim evidence given the way this hobby tends to work."

IMO it is not the lesser of two evils, and I don't condone it.

@Ganymede said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

@Derp

I think you missed the point of what TNP was implying about internet anonymity.

Do enlighten me, then. I don't think I did, but I'm open to the possibility that I'm wrong.

@TNP

It's really not that simple. That kind of reputational damage can go an awful long way, especially with false accusations. In case you didn't notice, the people in this hobby can hold grudges about the most petty shit for literal decades because folks just turn it over and over in their head until it's blown up in proportion to something greater than it ever was.

That kind of reputational damage can ruin friendships. It obliterates histories you've built up with other people, tarnishes good memories, and you always run the risk of slipping up and having someone come down on you for not outing yourself as someone people already have a grudge against.

So, sure, if you're part of the in-group this seems like a trivial thing because you never managed to cross someone with the power to bring that kind of damage against you. But there are others who have.

And so I strongly disagree that a pre-emptive ban does less damage and is the better course just based on the fact that you can start over. Not to mention the sheer fact that banning based on evidence-less accusation 'just in case' puts the burden of proof on the accused, rather than the accuser, and it's almost impossible to prove that you aren't whatever someone is accusing you of. Proofs based on absence of evidence are a logical fallacy for a reason.

@Ganymede said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

Preemptively banning someone is not something I do lightly, but when I do I can assure anyone that asks that I have done my homework. No one has to believe me when I say that, and my word as a person is on somewhat shaky grounds these days -- or so I have been told.

To be clear, that wasn't a dig at you in any way. At least, it was not intended to be. If that's the way it came across, I apologize. You and I have somewhat different standards when it comes to this sort of thing, and we've talked about that before, but I believe that everything you did you did with the best of intentions and with everyone's best interest in mind.

You and I differ on where that line is, is all.

@Seraphim73 said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

You've banned or driven off most of the people you claim were bullies.

I assume this is the general 'you'? Because I didn't actually ban a single person. I voted, with a group, on who should stay and who should come back and who should remain banned, and lest someone think we are a hivemind, the ban votes were not unanimous.

I know that the fun narrative right now is that I made some kind of authoritarian power grab, but I think that the other admins can confirm that we do things by vote, not fiat, and I was then one of three, and then one of five, and then once again one of three.

Other than that, I agree that there are levels of proof, some being better than others. But I wholly disagree that 'the crowd will rise up and defend the innocent of wrongdoing' is a realistic or viable strategy in the face of false accusations, as that doesn't usually mean they are innocent of wrongdoing. Only that they're popular enough to have friends that will speak on their behalf.

The same Spider that you decry above had plenty of people defending those same "false accusations" against her for years.

@Ghost said in Westworld:

@Derp ugh I'm so far behind. I'm still at Samurai season. I keep getting derailed but the promos for this season make it look like I've missed so much good stuff.

Dude you have. Get caught up and we'll gab!

So! Westworld is back on. And so far I'm pretty happy with the story being told. It has enough twists and turns that it keeps me guessing a bit, even if I'm anticipating some of the things that they're throwing at me now.

I had a feeling that we'd see some of the same things they used in S1 come back again, and that part didn't disappoint at all. Trying to avoid too many spoilers for those that haven't had a chance to get caught up to the latest, but overall I'm pretty satisfied with what's going down.

Anyone else watching? What's your take?

Tony Dow, aka Wally Cleaver, 77. Cancer.

@Seraphim73

I don't disagree that it's good to hear about these sorts of things. I think that boards like this can be extremely helpful in a variety of ways. My concern is the same as that of a number of other people -- that without some kind of evidence, this at best gets overexaggerated and inflated beyond its actual proportions, and at worst gets actively weaponized to be used against people just based on personality conflicts.

I'm not saying it has to be a precise mathematical formulation pointing to this-and-no-other conclusion, but I'd like to see something that backs up that theory if people are going to make the accusation, you know? Give me something.

@Ghost said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

the mass hysteria that comes with normalizing this sort of "witch hunt" behavior.

I find it fascinating that the last two years of the MU hobby, and this board in particular, have been showing all the classical signs of a Moral Panic, "a public mass movement, based on false or exaggerated perceptions or information that exceeds the actual threat society is facing. Moral panic is a widespread fear and often an irrational threat to society's values, interests, and safety."

1. Concern - MSB displays a heightened concern about certain groups or categories. Namely, the already-mentioned ten-or-so bad actors that crop up occasionally, and people that they assume are 'like them' based on some characteristic or another.

2. Hostility -The group experiencing the moral panic starts to identify people that think or act differently than they do, and start expressing increased aggression and antagonism toward them, often using hyperbole and inflammatory language to draw attention to what they feel is an issue.

3. Consensus - The group experiencing the moral panic, even if in a minority, starts to cross-talk to try to come up with a definition of Deviants. This becomes the target group, and while there can be minor dissent among the ranks, major dissent labels you another part of the Deviants, which is a socially damaging thing to do.

4. Disproportionality - Given the consequences of being labelled a Deviant, the calls for actions to be taken continue to escalate. This is where we start to see some of the performative nonsense that we've been seeing on this board in the not-too-distant past, with people making sure to be very visible and very seen despite their calls not passing any test related to common sense, so the definition of Deviant gets broader and the calls for action get harsher. You start attributing the label of Deviant to people just for the social capital that it gets you with the in-group, and since you bear absolutely no consequences for being wrong, there is nothing to stop you from doing it.

5. Volatility - It comes in fits and starts. It's not a sustained effort save in the case of a scant few people who constantly beat that drum. It can flare up again with some provocation, but for the most part it burns itself out in time. But the extremity of the situation goes down at a much slower rate, and people are quick to jump all the way up to 11 when it flares up again.

I really do think that a lot of this is just pearl-clutching in the vein of the classic moral panics. You might catch a few bad actors but at the expense of dragnetting your shit through society (see: Rock and Roll, Communists, Satanic Panic, Think of the Children, Pit Bulls, Black Crime, War on Drugs, Obesity/Fat, I could list these for days...)

@Seraphim73 said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

@Tirit said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

While I understand and concur with most of your responses, doesn't this sounds a little bit witch hunty?

Without some due diligence on the part of staffers, yes it can become something used against "good" players. But like @Arkandel said, it's better than the alternative, of letting problem players lurk in the community, waiting to harm other players and drive them away.

I think that I would personally disagree with this particular take. I don't think it's better to excise anyone accused on the grounds that they might have done something wrong, but I suppose that's where the due diligence part comes in.

The problem is that not everyone agrees on where that diligence should be. Here, we've seen this kind of behavior weaponized. At least two of the admin team has seen this happen in real time, and so we've chosen the path of 'if you make an accusation, bring receipts'. We feel that's more than fair in a hobby where everything is text based and able to be logged.

Some people have said this makes them feel unsafe. Well -- ok. I suppose that depends on your definition of 'safe'. If your definition of 'safe' is 'able to make accusations against people with no evidence and expect that action be taken based solely on my word alone' then no, this is not a space wherein that would be acceptable behavior. If your definition of 'safe' is 'here is what happened, here is the evidence that I have for it, here is the action I would like to see taken', then it's a perfectly safe space. That's the standard that we operate on here. Other boards and other administrations and other games have other standards.

It's impossible to find one way of doing things that is going to make everyone happy. And frankly, some of the same people that advocate for 'remove people from your game if they are a general pain in the ass' also decried Ganymede's decision to remove people being openly and actively hostile toward her on a space that she ran and paid for, so trying to divine a good standard from those kinds of conflicting viewpoints is a losing game anyway.

@Ghost said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

@Seraphim73 said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

You realize that what you're terming as paranoia is a response to people who have actually been tricked into interacting with people who have been creepers/abusers to them in the past, right? Denigrating that totally reasonable response like this is victim-blaming. It's horrible. You can do better.

Calm yourself down there, guy. No need to carpet-bag and escalate that. So horrible.

Of course people who have been actually stalked and harassed shouldn't be tricked into the kill zone of their prior abusers. There ARE some pretty crazy and dangerous people in the hobby. Sure. Watch out for them. There are, however, people who take this to extreme ends and stalk/track the whereabouts of people who disappointed them, which games they're on, which PBs they like to use, etc.

There are absolutely valid cases, but there are also cases where it does more damage than good.

But, of course, you're welcome to take that as an intended malleus maleficarum-level insult to abuse victims or whatever...

Ghost, keep it about the thought, not the person expressing it.

So not necessarily poetry per se, but I still like the Desiderata. When I'm bummed sometimes I read through it because it just has some feel-good qualities that doesn't necessarily feel like self-help drivel.

@@@@@@@@@@@@

Go placidly amid the noise and the haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons.

Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant; they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism.

Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment, it is as perennial as the grass.

Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth.

Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here.

And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

@@@@@@@@@@@@@

After some discussion, given recent feedback, the section formerly known as the Hog Pit has been moved to its own thing. Users can still view it. Posting permissions have been disabled. It is there as archive only.

I've pulled some of the others out from it and put it back in the (new) Reviews and Debates category.

Honestly, it's pretty murky where HP ends and where R&D starts, especially since there are years-old topics that have posts in the Recent Days, not all of which conform to the current standards.

Is it messy? -- Yeah. But I think it's probably good enough for government work or whatever. If you have a favorite topic that you think can be revived without crossing into Dangerous Territory per the current Code of Conduct, just start a new thread in R&D.

We shall let the graveyard of darker days Rest In Peace.

@Tez

Gmail does not work, you are right. We currently use SendGrid for our email. It was a little faster to set up than SendInBlue.

The limits on both are such that you will want to ask people not to subscribe to topic updates by email if you have any kind of voulme at all. We blew through 300 emails by like 10am with just a few people subscribed.

I think that's configurable in Node 2.0. Are you guys running that yet? I'd have to go dig back in the guts and see, but I think that you can turn off the ability for people to subscribe to e-mail updates. Realistically they can get pretty granular updates with the built-in watch system without having to get them in their e-mail, since that can be problematic apparently.

Edit: Correction, apparently you can only disable digest e-mails. The issue has come up several times on the forum on how to globally disable the option, and the co-founder keeps marking it as resolved by referring back to a circular chain of asks for it.

Seems weird but ok.

Currently working through this. It seems to be something to do with Google's changes regarding how you can sign into a gmail account. NodeBB says there is a workaround, but it's dated before the date on Google's site noting that less secure apps (those that only require you to sign in with a username and password, eg Node) will no longer be supported.

Trying a few other things. This is on the radar though. Thanks.

I guess here's my hot take on this:

I think that the schism from this board did repair the community.

Or, more specifically, I think that this board had very clearly settled into Warring Tribes. I'm definitely not the only one that saw as much, either. It's where a lot of the talk about a specific clique comes from. It's hard to pin down because it's something fluid, and has enough people moving in and out that it's probably best described as a tribe.

And we'd been trying to share a space for entirely too long. Like roommates with incompatible lifestyles and viewpoints, the enmities and vitriol just starting to boil over all the damn time in these little dogpiles and pissing matches.

I think that the split, while being characterized as a wound by a great many people, could just as easily be seen as the beginnings of healing far older wounds by just as many. Or at least giving it the space and air to start to heal, rather than sitting there festering.

People have pointed out that there's now an "us vs. them" mentality because there are two boards. I would like to counter with: there was an us vs. them mentality on this board before the split. Now it's just more visible.

And I think this is probably one of the healthier things that has happened in a good long while.

@Kestrel said in What Would it Take to Repair the Community?:

lol. lmao.

Knock it off.

Is that an un-veiled-enough warning?

@Bellecourt

Any particular Covenant or Bloodline that you had in mind? Any goals for the duo? Is this expected to be a platonic relationship? The more information you can provide, the easier it will be for you.

@Taika can probably provide some more info too.

@Ganymede said in RL things I love:

And now I have five jobs, and I couldn’t be happier.

In case anyone wonders why I’m not around much no more.

Ok. That's it. I'm cutting you off. Five is your limit.