Posts made by Ghost

@mietze Unfortunately it's been 3 years and I think this is spat #22.

Thanks for the warm fuzzies, tho. My SO and I are generally the "Heeeeey let's all have a bottle of wine and be friends!" people while we slowly watch what was once a huge group of friends halve, then halve, then halve, then halve, then have to consider "who hates who this week???" when putting together a party.

We are cursed, really. We will meet a married couple and think "Hey! A cool married couple to double date with!" and then 3 weeks later they file for divorce. We meet a group of 100+ people and within weeks the group splits in half with people choosing sides, and we're in the "Sniffle...why must we choose?" camp.

It's just a shame to watch so many good people fighting with each other (or, what I fear in this case) the realization that people you once thought were good people aren't so good anymore. It's sad to have to consider which is more noble? Ghosting people because you know that wanting to talk about their constant fighting with others will only result in joining the drama pool, or trying to be genuine and address the problem as a friend knowing full well it's about a 90% chance you'll just end up in the drama pool.

The more I think about this the more I realize these people are a problem and are not good people.

@Lotherio $10,000.00 a week on cocaine makes your "Convince Ghost to accept you as a sensei" pitch generally convincing.

@Auspice said in How to Approach (nor not) a Suspected Creep:

But by and far, MUs seem to consider 3rd parties as non-entities.
I've gone to Staff in the past to say 'Hey, here's a log/evidence in which my friend tells me that Dude is threatening her and is making her miserable and I have evidence of Dude engaging in bad behavior in other veins.'
And Staff's reply was: well, unless your friend reports it herself, we can't do anything. Sorry.

And this here is a failing of conflict of interest, IMO. Also, though, it doesn't seem to work any better if you report it not as a 3rd person but as a first person.

The prerogative of game owners/staff is to find ways to keep these games running, populated, and popular enough to keep a steady flow of "good players", which by and large at this point are the same 25 or so players and the occasional new player. So this is why issues like this aren't often addressed and staff wait until they feel beforementioned prerogative is in danger before doing anything. Now we're back to fear of retaliation. If you pay attention it's the same bullshit on every game. The only difference is that its a variable length of time until the same players bring up their same old behaviors or same drama with the same players over and over again. So it's often the same unresolved garbage.

This is something MU needs to figure out to evolve, IMO.

@Auspice So...i guess my hot take is that in RL there is no IC/OOC factor. The assumption is that if the creeper is keeping it 100% IC that the problem can be mitigated or controlled through IC means, and that the real issues come when it spills out into pages, harassment, oocly pushy behavior, threats, stalking, etc.

So, IMO it's just hard to read. IS the player uncomfortable? If you ask Oocly, then the issue spills from an IC issue to an OOC issue, then it becomes subject to all of the OOC bullshit. Still, without learning Oocly, you have no way of knowing that the two players havent Oocly PLANNED to RP "creepy guy and uncomfortable girl".

Theres a lot of reasons why 3rd party is always considered in Human Resources cases at offices. It's totally appropriate to tell HR that the two guys making racist jokes made you uncomfortable, even if you overheard the conversation. So in that light I think it's fine to message staff that it made you, as a 3rd party, feel uncomfortable.

The POINT here is that if the issue is that you as a third party felt uncomfortable by someone else's IC interactions, it's YOUR issue. Dealing with it on someone else's behalf then isn't exactly FOR THEM, but it's your own personal OOC issue based on 3rd party witness and should be approached that way.

Let other people deal with their issues as themselves, but if someone feels inclined to deal with an issue on someone else's behalf, that doesn't make it their issue; it's yours and now the target of the creeping is a 3rd party to a problem that you have.

That make sense?

Getting very sick of personal drama on a RL scale with my gamer friends.

Out of some 30 friends I got some that are always fighting with someone and it's never their fault. They're never working on mending bridges and always making the fights public, yet also always claiming that they're justified in being entirely shitty to people. These spats expand to a new 2 or 3 people every month and I'm starting to have to consider voting them off of HANGOUT ISLAND because my 28 or SO other friends are sick of it, too.

It's stupid. Out of a bunch of fucking D&D gamers and board game nerds, people still buck for that "coolest person at the nerd table" status; like they're any better than anyone else playing CATAN or some shit.

I guess I should count my blessings, though. RL has better ways of handling this behavior than MU clearly does.

@Arkandel said in Good TV:

@Ghost said in Good TV:

I wouldn't wanna fight Carano, Frankie Adams, or Ronda Rousey

Nor would that fight last long.

HOW COULD U EVEN KNOW THAT BRUH

I went to the Jean-Claude Van Damme school of flexibility-based groin punches and helicopter kicks.

My two cents

In my experience most players don't directly deal with harassment/creeping by setting quick, clear boundaries, giving warnings, and reporting to staff when harassment continues. IME most players gauge whether or not handling the creeper would negatively impact their ability to find roleplay by means of rumor-spreading, if they're popular with staff, or they'll be blocked from plots. Fear of retaliation is so pervasive in the hobby that most players I've met choose to hide from it or weather it instead of take steps to end it.

If I had a quarter for every time someone paged me with some story about how "X person is stalking them but just leave it alone, one scene here and there and they stop" I'd have a month's subscription to WoW paid off.

So here's the problem:

1. This is a judgy hobby. What you perceive as creepy may be a known IC factor on someone else's part, or may not be considered creepy by the 3rd party you think is getting creeped on. Be careful to not jump the gun.
2. While it may seem friendly, jumping the gun on another player's behalf takes that fear of retaliation decision out of their hands. People need to speak up and ask for help, but really unless it's something really, really, really obviously wrong and you have a log of it, the true weight of reporting harassment falls onto the target player. In theory, complaining on someone's behalf when they don't yet deem it necessary may not actually be on their behalf, but on yours, so best self-check on that.
3. if it's all IC...then let it be IC. Creepy or not, what you perceive to be creepiness should, in theory, be treated with and dealt with ICly. The reason these things get fucked up is because of OOC influences. Pressure, guilt, etc can all be dealt with ICly if it's all IC with far better results than OOC, so be grateful if it's kept IC. Be even more grateful if it's a game that allows for PK.

In the end, I think it's far better to be supportive of people who are being creeped on to be the engine for their own safety.

Another note:

I'm so fucking glad to see TV shows casting strong bodied women as strong bodied women.

I'm referring to Cara on Mandalorian and Draper on the Expanse, specifically. Sure, Milla Jovovich is strikey, which is exactly what a thin, scrappy, modelesque chick would have to do in a fight, but I'm so tired of bikini models getting cast in roles where their body type is all wrong. Cops, Marines, Soldiers? This ain't just cardio, there's a lot of body training involved and most female cops I know are tough, buff, and can take some shit.

So to see characters like Draper, played by Frankie Adams (who is 5'11" and is a healthy body weight and build) play roles that are supposed to be these badass women that guys like me would be smart to listen to when they say "get behind me and let me take care of this" is great. My family has girls who played boys high school football and do MMA. I'm glad to see actual tough girls in tough girl roles.

I read an article where Gina Carano (Cara in Mandalorian) was saying that she's grateful to Mando because she was getting passed over for action roles because she has big arms, big legs, and she was told that she wasn't the body type they wanted for the role.

Fuck that. I dont care how machismo I want to feel at any given time. I wouldn't wanna fight Carano, Frankie Adams, or Ronda Rousey and wouldn't feel one bit bad about them putting some dude in a bar who is giving me shit into a chokehold.

Positive improvement.

@Lotherio Oh, it's totally a western (or a samurai story, which are really interchangeable re: Fistful of Dollars/Yojimbo, Magnificent 7/7 Samurai). It's really smartly done and is done by a man who likely grew up playing with the same action figures that I did.

You can learn a lot about a person by how they treat their "enemies".

@Derp said in Why We Don't Make New Friends Anymore (Or Creepers Do Creepy Things):

@Ghost said in Why We Don't Make New Friends Anymore (Or Creepers Do Creepy Things):

The Canal Killer was prominent in the AZ cosplay/con scene and was known for driving around in a retrofitted 80s police cruiser covered in fake blood with ZOMBIE HUNTER on the back of it.

Those people were already dead! You cannot murder an animated corpse!

His trial was supposed to be in October but got pushed to 2020. I fucking hope that's not his defense. Oh man...

@Auspice Yeah fuck that noise.

Also...

The Canal Killer was prominent in the AZ cosplay/con scene and was known for driving around in a retrofitted 80s police cruiser covered in fake blood with ZOMBIE HUNTER on the back of it.

New creepy.

Learning that someone in the local gaming/convention community is a serial killer who is going on trial in 2020 for decapitating women.

But thats not the kind of creepy we are talking about.

So another new creepy: When I was 19 I went on a date with a girl, and the date ended with me dropping her off at her house (she lived with her parents). IIRC her and her friend had come over to my apartment once or twice before to hang out, but it was TOTALLY A SURPRISE WHEN THIS GIRL'S MOM SHOWED UP AT MY HOUSE A WEEK LATER. Her mom apparently left her husband and daughter (who i didn't intend on going on another date with) at home to find me and booty call me. Oh, she was really pushy, too. Come onnnn, it'll be funnnnn.

It was around the time she was grabbing my arm and trying to drag me to my bathroom telling me that she wanted me to piss on her in the shower that I told her to leave or I'd tell her daughter.

I ghosted (hah! Pun!) all of those fucking people.

Also, to be somewhat fair...

In the punk/metal scene I've known plenty of couch hoppers and party houses that were like this. "Dude we dont have a room and you can crash on the couch for some scrip" In these cases it was a bunch of punks or metalheads all dividing the rent so that they could afford to work less, party more, or spend more of their cash towards the band.

But this is also what crack houses do, so...take it as you will.

I would say only 30% of the people I know who relied on LARPHouses and paid money to live on couches ever got out of the habit and made something of themselves. The rest are a lot of mental disorders, still living in cramped houses, mostly single, no kids, shit job, focusing on their 1st and 3rd friday LARPs or mending their SCA armor.

Oh. And a lot of them moved on to create or are involved heavily in some of the "clubs" here in town that I mentioned earlier. Buncha dudes these days in wrinkled poets shirts at house parties with nicknames like "SwordSaint" and are in some fucked up polycule.

So the LARP House people are also the people recruiting gamers into the poly scene, these days.

@hedgehog said in Why We Don't Make New Friends Anymore (Or Creepers Do Creepy Things):

@Auspice

What in the actual fuck were they doing to justify that egregious an overcost on rent? Was it in Mansionland? Did everyone have private en suite rooms? I'm also assuming that the food that they would supply would then be of the ramen/turkey dogs/lentils/rice/potato buds variety, too, not anything actually worth eating.

Nope.

In my cases, these were usually rickety rentals or older builds with uneven floorboards, bed bugs, destroyed furniture, piles of crushed soda cans, piled dishes yet to be cleaned, pizza boxes, overgrown lawns, cockroach problems, etc.

For the owner/landlord, they got to either live more comfortably and cut hours from work OR quit work entirely because they were able to double the mortgage.

For the tenant, they were usually not educationally, socially, or motivationally gifted. Most had very hard times holding jobs, were kicked out of their parent's house or moved specifically to the LARP House to live that way, or seemed to consider that their overhead was less so they got to keep more of their money and spend more time playing. Only, in the end, they really didnt have anything, didn't groom well, didnt have clean clothes, and when the LARP house went away had few options, either.

These places were absolutely alternative housing solutions for people trading quality of housing for low overhead and less stress. These places were also absolutely somewhat predatory by the owner/landlord because they could basically get these people to pay their bills for them and spend all of their extra money on new PCs, furniture, and other comforts that were often locked behind the landlord's bedroom door.

As I understand it, one of the landowners I know of was "removed" from their job and now lives with his mother, and the other I havent heard anything about in years, but IIRC they continued to allow that 16 year old to bang that dude under their roof.

@Auspice I knew a few people who were basically homeless LARPers who paid their LARP house rent by doing dishes, mowing the lawn, etc.

To make matters worse, one of the LARP House owners hosted regular LARPs at the place and would get increasingly mad if things didn't go his way. Tenants lived in fear of getting exiled from the house if they did something like kill their landlord's character, so by and large they just gave the guy everything he wanted and let him win.

I listened to a gaming podcast a long time ago, but this girl (who, admittedly was on the prettier end of the spectrum) detailed her attempt at WoD LARP in Missouri, IIRC. She also detailed LARP houses, metric tons of pressure from male RPers, and a general lack of self grooming and cleanliness that matched what I had experienced.

So, my town, Missouri, the town Auspice mentioned. I dont know how prevalent this stuff is now because I stopped larping around 2001, but these stories are common enough across multiple cities that I wouldn't be surprised to see 3-4 other LARPers on this forum add their cities, too.

@TheOnceler said in Why We Don't Make New Friends Anymore (Or Creepers Do Creepy Things):

@Ghost said in Why We Don't Make New Friends Anymore (Or Creepers Do Creepy Things):

This is the same 16 year old girl who lived with her dad in a "LARP house." Basically a LarpHouse is a crack house (usually minus the drugs) where someone acts as slumlord to 7-10 larpers who pay rent on couches.

This is the most spectacularly fucking bananas thing in this whole goddam thread.

I legitimately do not want to believe that this is real.

I legitimately guarantee that this is real.

One I knew back in the day had something like 5 bedrooms but up to 10 occupants (approx 6 across 5 rooms then another 4+ on couches). The mortgage couldn't have been more than 1200/month but the owner (who ran a LARP there) charged 300-500 a month across 4 rooms (which were rarely vacant). I also knew of a few people that were paying 200/month + share of utilities to sleep on specific couches at night. Owner took on enough per month to quit his day job. Place had to be bombed a lot for bedbugs.

Another was a smaller 3 bedroom house with I think 4-5 occupants in the bedrooms but another 2-3 (16 year old girl house) in curtained-off sections.

In both cases it was widely understood that despite paying "couch rent" you would not have access to your couch while a LARP or other gaming event was going on.

Very little drugs that I heard of, but it was a whole lot of dirty dishes and pizza boxes, and people covering their bills with 25-hour a week minimum wage part time jobs so that they could afford to be involved in near-constant LARPs and RPG games.

@Ganymede said in Why We Don't Make New Friends Anymore (Or Creepers Do Creepy Things):

@Ghost

I don't want to make it sound trivial, but have you thought about opening up your own safe group?

Not trivial at all. My friend beat me to it so there's definitely an alternative, but its just crazy how common this is.

Its pretty easy these days to create FB groups and just rendezvous to another meet up club. Most gamers who want to play Azul and Catan will show up in a heartbeat. So all is well, but a bunch of drama and some people feeling tired of having to find new game spots that didnt suddenly become fronts for other stuff.

My buddy says it best: "It's totally great to have a Fetlife community have a gamer subgroup, but when you do it the other way around youre always gonna make some people uncomfortable."

@Cobaltasaurus Fuck that's horrible. I'm sorry that happened.

Yanno, the real shame about LARP is that it can be SO FUCKING COOL when players dress up, get into character, and treat it like an ongoing soap opera/HowToHostAMurderMystery, but the sheer number of players and groups I've seen use it as a hotbed for poly/swinger recruiting and other shady activity totally ruins it. I see pictures(also WoD documentary) of these players in Germany in full Nosferatu makeup and question whether or not I'd do it again if it were like THAT, and I still think "...i wouldn't if it were with the same crowd."

My town has a LOT of shady stories surrounding these groups. I know of an orgy that happened mid-LARP in someone's shed, 4 or 5 "SCA" affiliated groups who went from RP to being these weird social clubs with swinger/dungeon/poly parties (and the members all have secret names like Dragonstar), lots of broken marriages, cheating, poly drama, blood play, etc. (Disclaimer: I don't judge poly/bdsm/etc. I'm into some of it. By weird I mean more so that I see more gaming stuff being used as a front for recruiting college age girls into the parties than I do see them giving a fuck anout gaming itself). Parties where they say things like "unless you have a sign on your shirt saying 'no touch' expect to get mauled or undressed if its your first night there".

But I gotta wonder. With how pervasive some of this stuff is in the gaming community, how many people are there who show up looking just to meet people, game, and make friends who get pressured with this next level stuff? I know quite a few who have sworn off LARP and some gaming groups because of harassment, bad stories, and being shunned or excluded for not ponying up on the sex action on the side.

In fact, I'm actually dealing with some of it myself right now in real life. A group of gamer meetups is now turning pool parties into "dungeon parties" and some RL friends have reached out to me saying things like "I...didnt sign up for this". It's resulted in conversations about how sex clubs, bdsm clubs, etc all contract to secrets, anonymity, no cell phones, touching rules, etc but these "clubs" really don't.

In my estimation you can probably trust people at ACTUAL sex/swinger/bdsm clubs more than some of these people.