Best posts made by Lisse24

@faraday said in Tools, and not just Beiber.:

@lisse24 said in Tools, and not just Beiber.:

OOC Rooms, while popular, incentivize sitting OOC, by making social interaction available while doing so.

I think you're mistaking the chicken for the egg here.

The very nature of the MUSH interface means that character bits always need to be present in "a room". If you force people to be IC or log off, you'll just see people idling in private rooms while chatting on channels, or being on the grid but "not really here". This has been the case for 30 years.

OOC Rooms aren't the problem. The "problem" is the trend of players with limited free time choosing to wait around for "something good" or "something specific" as opposed to just going IC and taking the first random scene with strangers that comes along. And I use air quotes deliberately there because I'm not personally convinced that's a bad thing.

I have to disagree with you. Yes, players have to be in a "room." However Arx, and Firan before it, had that room be a void. Players couldn't see who else was there, and they certainly couldn't chat. When the room that players sit in waiting for RP also doubles as a community hub, players will eventually have to face the choice of either going IC to hunt down RP and miss out on on the fun chatter or stay for the fun chatter (which is guaranteed) and miss out on potential RP (not guaranteed).

I'm not saying that OOC rooms are the sole reason for inactivity, but I do believe that they help reinforce it by imposing a punishment (missing out on social activity) for doing what we would like players to do (go IC and hunt out RP).It also blurs the lines of who is and isn't available for RP. If someone is connected and sitting in the OOC room, are they available for RP, or just chatting? If I page them, will they be down for doing something?

@Admiral said:

Alright. The 'solution' the bosses came up with? No punishment for her, no legal ramifications. Instead she gets to come into work two hours later every day and I don't have to see her.

I am... of mixed feelings about it. On the one hand? Yay, safe. They won't be threatening me anymore.

On the downside? This killed my 'promotion' I was supposed to be getting. Also she gets rewarded by not having to work so early.

And I was told if I file a lawsuit against her, I'm fired. This is Texas, so yes. They can do that.

That's awful. Ugh. So sorry:(

@arkandel said in Tools, and not just Beiber.:

I'm not convinced the presence of an OOC room is that important. In my experience it's still a net negative because people hang out there when they could be looking to RP instead, but that's about it.

This is about where I stand. I think it's a contributing factor, but only in as much as it reinforces a culture of hanging back OOC. I'm a little surprised that of everything in my post that's what got the attention. I think there's a lot that games can do to encourage activity beyond making changes to the OOC room that will have a larger effect - like actually giving players a reason to interact with people.

I'm fond of chai tea, black instead of with cream, and even though it's not a popular choice, lemon tea is also yummy to me, esp. if I add a dollop of sweetener.

@Auspice.
I agree. +Scenes does give you some of the info you need, but not enough to be able to find RP reliably. It tells you point 1. Who is already RPing, and whether or not you can join that scene, along with a sense of what that scene might be about.

It does not tell you 2 - 3. In other words, you have no clue who's on and isn't RPing but wants to be and what those scenes may be about. So on Ares you need another tool to work in conjunction with +scenes to fill that gap.

@RnMissionRun said in RL Anger:

Here where I live (rural Southern MD), the cops will give you a ticket for standing in the divider. You're only supposed to cross at a crosswalk, but you can get away with crossing anywhere as long as you can get across the street in one go. This means no standing in the center turning lane, the median, etc. waiting for the other lanes to clear.

Yeah. This is a different situation than that which is usually the right thing. The divided area has a cross walk going to it and a cross walk leading from it. The crosswalks in either direction actually both have their own signal light on the divider, but this particular spot doesn't have a signal light at all. Basically, the entire purpose of the divider is to give people a place to stop and pause while crossing the street because someone decided that putting a six-line road in one of the most pedestrian-heavy places in the country was a good idea.

Still, even if that wasn't the case? Even if I would have been ticketed for standing there? I'd rather pay a ticket than be dead or in the hospital.

@faraday @Auspice I don't disagree. I think the +wantrp command as it exists is a pretty crappy tool that doesn't provide a lot of information. Again, if people are trying to do a task and we make a change to try and help them do that task, and the change fails, it's not the fault of the people who failed to adapt to it, it's the fault of tool/change we provided which didn't meet their need.

I do think that you can create a game culture where these extra tools are not needed. I think Arx is an excellent example of this. Arx created a game where players are reliant on each other. They've also pushed activity back to the grid, meaning that spontaneous/pick-up RP is easier to find. They've changed the game culture. However, most of the times when we have these conversations, game creators are very resistant to making the changes that Arx made.

@Tinuviel said in If you work hard, son, maybe someday you'll RP:

@Lisse24 said in If you work hard, son, maybe someday you'll RP:

If players do not make that shift, then it is not their fault and we are asking something unreasonable of them

No. If you provide a tool, and people don't use it, that is the fault of the people not of the tool.

ETA: I also repeat that it will take time for people to adjust to new tools. Cultures take time to change, they just do. There is no magic tool that will appear and suddenly be in use by everyone all at the same time to the same level of competence.

I was going to write a snarky response, but I absolutely agree. People take time to adjust to a new tool and you have to teach them how to use it, and you have to remind people that it's there, by CONSTANTLY pointing to it. By constantly, I mean big huge letters on the wiki: THIS IS HOW YOU FIND RP, daily emits on the game USE THIS, and periodic reminders. But if people know the tool exists and they try to use and STILL have the same problem, then it's not them, it's the tool.

This is a fundamental design principal so I don't know why I get push back on it, except that it's easier to point the finger at every one else than to honestly think over what you're doing, why it doesn't work, and make the changes you need to in order to make it work.

@Cupcake I totes get that feeling and it sucks. For some reason, it seems like I'm always a periphery member to all my friend groups, so if I'm around when they're doing something, that's cool. But, I also get excluded from a lot of things because it just never occurred to anyone to invite me. There's a lot of self-esteem and self-doubt issues that get all tangled up in that and so I've definitely been where you are and totally and completely sympathize!

So, we want to spread out RP, but not rely on XP?

I'm just going to spitball here:
I think this can be accomplished on games that have Action Points or some other method of limiting how much action players get in plot or can do behind the scene. In those games, you can lower the total amount of action points slightly, then either a) have new players accrue points at a faster pace for a set amount of time or b) give new players an extra pool. This gives current players incentive to draw new players into plots and factions.

@Cupcake On another day, I'd be happy to talk about my own, personal beliefs with you, as muddy and complicated as they are.

That is not a conversation that I have the patience for today, though. Please see above.

@Ganymede said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

@Thenomain said in Getting Young Blood Into MU*'ing:

I do think that picking system and picking setting are different situations, but demanding people Know All Phase 3 Marvel Movies is a consideration alongside Buying Every WoD Book In Existence.

The WoD 2E books are all fairly self-sufficient. Having the CoD helps, but you don't need it.

Granted, those books are voluminous and horrifyingly dry at times.

And horribly written from an instructional design POV (though slightly better than their predecessors).

@Auspice
I think this is very important stuff - recognizing the validity of feeling frustrated, down, or angry with a situation.

Right now, my family is going through the toughest time it has ever gone through. Nearly a year ago exactly, I attended the funeral of my aunt after a very short and painful battle with cancer. In the beginning of October, my sister was admitted to the hospital and gave birth to an extremely premature infant a few weeks later. Now, five months down the road, my niece is still in the NICU with no coming home date anywhere on the horizon.

One of the things that has struck me as we go through both of these situations is how reluctant people are to recognize that this is hard and it sucks for us. Up to the moment that my aunt died, people were visiting her and telling her that she would get better. This very morning, as I explained the situation with my niece, a friend said, "Well, she'll be home soon!" No. No, she won't and it sucks. We're tired and grumpy and telling us to look on the bright side delegitimizes the struggle that we're going through right now.

@Ghost I have not seen the TV show so I may be misinterpreting your post, but it seems like you solve these issues by focusing on the fae characters. So it is not another PC that is oppressing yours or acting racist and no one has any excuse to allow that to bleed OOC.

On the contrary, it would be you and a group of your friends fighting the machine, which, if you take a glance at my past characters has always been a concept that's interested me.

Got a few episodes under my belt, thanks to being sick. I can see why the show would be appealing to someone who really likes Changeling, or who the aesthetic appeals to. There's also a lot of inspiration to be had for settings.

But without those predilections the show itself is ... ouch.
The acting isn't Sandsnake bad, but it's not great, and the politics are about as subtle as a sledgehammer.

I've watched enough to get a feel for the setting, which, again, has a ton of potential, but I don't think I'll be finishing the show.

I gotta say, I'm torn on this too.

One, yes we're here to tell stories, but there's no author who puts everything on screen. Ton's of stuff happens off camera where the reader/viewer can't see, but still has an impact.

If some ditz doesn't wanna play out a scene that exists solely to embarrass them, even if they brought that scene on themselves, I have no problem with that. So long as it's firmly established that Private A got chewed out by Captain B in front of Squad C and everyone in Squad C saw and knows. Now obviously, ducking out of the getting chewed out scene shouldn't equal ducking out of consequences and that's when I think things get trickier and if a player equates ducking out of the scene itself to ducking out of consequence and continues to be a PITA, you might have to make it clear that they're ability to play the character is going to be severely compromised if their characters actions don't change.

@Auspice Mwahahahaha! I love that we were all cute little newbies once.

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Arkandel said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

See the issue isn't whether there's a ST explicitly tossing plot around. It's the idea that players know in advance plot is available and, more importantly, when it will happen. There's a time and a place involved, so if they show up they are going to participate in... something.

In my opinion that kind of pre-scheduled 'plot scene' is almost universally horrible for everyone involved because it's just too many players in the same place at the same time. Unless the game is extremely small, I think it makes more sense to handle the plot like Arx does it where it by and large happens discreetly through bluebooking, private scenes and story emits.

^^^^This.

@Groth said in What game system would you prefer for a big-tent nWoD project?:

@Livia
The way RFK handled those beats was pretty manageable.
https://requiemforkingsmouth.fandom.com/wiki/Character_Advancement

I loved the way RfK handled beats. It's the only time it ever worked for me on a game. If I remember correctly, you could claim a beat for a short-term aspiration without having to toss that aspiration and think up a new one, which would solve much of the issue people seem to have with short-term aspirations.

@Ganymede I eye it now and again, but then I think it goes back to what @Sunny said earlier about coming in cold. I'd want to go where I know I'd find RP.

My last two Arx attempts fizzled because the amount of good, relationship-building RP I was getting on there wasn't worth the amount of grinding in that game.

That being said. If anyone wants to toss a character or a concept or come on to that game together, shoot me a DM.

@Coin Several people had said in the past that trying to find and start RP on Ares systems is difficult. I'm one of them, so I'm sympathetic to @LWhiskey's issue.

That being said, I haven't looked at Euphoria at all to have an idea on what is and is not working.

Just finished Rhythm of War and I really, really want a Cosmere game - despite the fact that I generally avoid games based on books, shows, or movies.